Incontinent car

[Eldavo]

Got back from a spirited run a few weeks back, pulled onto the drive and jumped out to open the garage. It was then I noticed warm coolant running out of the back of the belt cover in a slow but steady stream.

Switched the car off and let it cool while I checked the fluid levels and had a general poke around. Restarted it and parked the old girl in the garage and she was totally dry. So, worked out that the leak is happening when the thermostat opens and brings the radiator cooling loop into play. Printed off the exploded parts diagram and checked all the relevant hoses and connections, but everything seems sound.

Water pump was new 1000 miles ago and leak isn't coming from there, so kinda stumped. Also, the situation is hard to replicate at the moment as snow is everywhere and the temps are so low that idling isn't bringing it up to temp.

Anyone any ideas? Am going to drain and flush the coolant so if I have to keep topping the level up then I know what I'm adding to as well.

Thanks, David.

 

[JamesO]

One easy method I use for finding coolant leaks is as follows:-

The only tool needed is a £5 tyre compressor.

1. Fit the tyre compressor to the end of the overflow hose on the expansion tank.

2. Remove the cap.

3. Switch the compressor on and use the palm of your hand to seal the top of the expansion tank.

This method helped me find a slow leak on mine and its much safer than poking around a running engine.

 

[robwright]

And also a good way of bleeding if you think about it mate.

 

[Eldavo]

Nice idea James, will give it a go. However, as the leak only seems to appear when the thermostat is open, I'm not sure this method will work for the secondary part of the cooling system unless I try and remove the thermostat first.

 

[JamesO]

It should work, stat open or closed.

 

[homesea]

My old one did this looked like the water pump as water all over the belt covers but it was the bottom rad hose.

It had a split from the hose clamp rubbing for over 20 years!

 

[Eldavo]

Not looking good, coolant is leaking from where the water pump meets the block. Accompanied by a rubbery plasticy hot smell and a tapping noise. Looks like I might have jinxed it by saying it wasn't the water pump!

 

[sawood12]

Well there is alot of wisdom on this and other forums that you should replace your waterpump every two timing belt changes irrespective of if there is a problem with it. This was not a view shared by both of the specialists that I used who said that they would only change a waterpump if and only if it needed it. They both said that in their experience water pump failures are rarely catastrophic (i'm sure some are, but generally they're not) and they usually show the need for replacement by leaking or by exhibiting bearing play. In their experience water pumps can last many tens of thousands of miles - my car had 120k on the clock when I passed her on and according to the service history (which was pretty comprehensive) hadn't had a new water pump and was leak free.

The problem with replacing the water pump is that by disturbing the seal and changing for a new seal and pump you can get leakage problems as the seals don't always provide a perfect fit and seal - so why change it unless it is necessary? Go-on, two different schools of thought there, ask 10 specialists and you'll get several different opinions.

Sorry to hear about your problems - lets hope it is a cheap fix!

 

[Eldavo]

The water pump was brand new last Spetember and about 1200 miles ago so really hoping it isn't goosed.

 

[JamesO]

Hmm, rubbery smell and leaking? Possibly bearing gone and pump siezed or not running true causing the belt to melt against the pulley. I wouldn't run it again until the covers are off and its checked.
2.7 valves are stupidly expensive, a head rebuild could go into a grand easily.

Was the pump done at a garage? Any possibility they may help out? A year and a bit is certainly premature.

 

[Eldavo]

Thanks again James. Will get the belt covers off when I get the chance and get cracking. I needed to reverse out of the garage as all the Xmas stuff was above the car but no no need to move it again. Will get the car jacked up and do this job, the rear brakes and repack the driveshafts with grease.

 

[Eldavo]

Got stuck into this last night with Northern924 (or rather he did and I helped)!

After a good poke about before xmas it seemed the water pump gasket was goosed, the rest of the pump seemed in good nick (although the proof of that will be when we get it all back together and running).

This was the pump after we removed it:

We had a complete faff on trying to remove the balance shaft rollers that had been done up with an air gun previously, but a crack in the top of the rear belt housing meant that we could leave them both on along with the crank pulley:

Lots of crud and old gasket to clean up before refitting:

Called it a day (night) after refitting the rear belt cover. Going to put the rest back together tomorrow and stick on a new timing belt too (the old one is only a year old but while we're in there it makes sense, especially as the Contitech belts are less than £12 at GSF) along with a new dizzy cap and rotor.

Will update when everything is back together and (fingers crossed) it's all sorted

 

[zcacogp]

Ouch. Not nice. Well done for finding it.

Who fitted that pump? I'd be having a polite word in their shell-like if they left that much old gasket on there ...


Oli.

 

[Eldavo]

Oli, that's the gasket that was fitted last year with the water pump. It had completely broken apart

 

[zcacogp]

Oh, so gasket failure?

Funny. Proper gasket, done up properly, without much pressure behind it (as opposed to a head gasket, for instance.) Odd that it should fail so comprehensively. I don't think I have heard of such a thing before.


Oli.

 

[Northern924]

Was great to work in a garage unlike at home in the open lol

You can see from the pic's that the fail was at the bottom of the gasket, I was expecting to find loose bolts at the bottom but didn't but as I say you can see all the crud covering the bottom section of the gasket, just gave way I guess which will have allowed air which will have cause the slight rusting in there.

New gasket is on and the pump is back in place, another trip down to Casa Eldavo tomorrow should see the engine running again.

2 FOES in 1 week, think I could do this with my eyes shut now [8D]

Saying that I've over tensioned my balance belt so will have to do that at some point v. soon [&:]

 

[zcacogp]

FOES?

 

[Eldavo]

Front Of Engine Service?

Oli, that's my worry too. But we'll know for sure later tonight.

 

[zcacogp]

"That's my worry" - I presume you are talking about the gasket failure.

Given that gaskets are such simple things, I'd be checking the two faces which the gasket sits between are checked for flatness (and I'd be surprised if there are problems with either, particularly if the pump is new), and assume a defective (or damaged) gasket if there isn't an obvious problem.


Oli.

 

[Eldavo]

Gasket faces are spot on now after some razor blade and fine sandpaper action. I had the easy job of doing the pump itself whilst Northern924 did the block.

"My Worry" - is that we'll get everything back together and find the problem still exists due to something simple like a split hose!