Induction Kits
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Simon Davidson
New member
I guess I am biased here as I supply them but i do have one on my own 3.2 SSE,my feelings are:
Power gain fairly minimal, most suppliers claim 3-8 BHP but regardless of this the engine seems to rev better at high revs
The noise is wonderful and worth the conversion alone.
Looks far more impressive than the black plastic box.
Thats about it for me on induction kits, they are simple enough to fit and remove and seem to make the engine sound more like a Porsche should.
Best Regards, Simon
www.essentialstyling.com
Power gain fairly minimal, most suppliers claim 3-8 BHP but regardless of this the engine seems to rev better at high revs
The noise is wonderful and worth the conversion alone.
Looks far more impressive than the black plastic box.
Thats about it for me on induction kits, they are simple enough to fit and remove and seem to make the engine sound more like a Porsche should.
Best Regards, Simon
www.essentialstyling.com
Guest
New member
Graham - I have a K&N filter on my car. I have to say that I haven't really noticed any major changes in performance, but it does sound a lot better. From the research I did before I bought one, there were some suggestions that they do allow more dirt into the engine, but I was a bit dubious of this claim - anyway it's on the car now and has been for the last year!
Which kit ?
A link or a pic would be nice.
I have a K&N element in my '83 3.2
It made a great noise, made the engine sound very hungry. I have however been advised that maybe they do not filter as well as the paper and grit may affect the AFM flap.
Maybe it is possible. The K&N was invented before AFM's were.
A link or a pic would be nice.
I have a K&N element in my '83 3.2
It made a great noise, made the engine sound very hungry. I have however been advised that maybe they do not filter as well as the paper and grit may affect the AFM flap.
Maybe it is possible. The K&N was invented before AFM's were.
I used the K&N 57i on the BMW. Haven't put one on the Porsche yet.
I have used K&N filters on grasstrack racing Minis and have had no problems with filtration (and they've been exposed to some serious dust !! As long as they are oiled properly they will be fine IMHO.
I have used K&N filters on grasstrack racing Minis and have had no problems with filtration (and they've been exposed to some serious dust !! As long as they are oiled properly they will be fine IMHO.
Guest
New member
Have a look at the intake on a 3.2 with the filter removed. It's not the filter that is providing the restriction IMHO.
If you are really curious about K&N filters and how well they filter then do a search on Pelican. There are lab tests referenced that show that they let thru bigger particles than the common paper filter which could be detrimental to the long-term health of your engine. The oil has also been shown to have detrimental effects to AFMs, particularly the hot wire type, if the filters are slightly over oiled. My own personal opinion is that K&N is a classic example of the triumph of marketing over reality.
Of course if you want a cool noise (don't we all?) then the drilled airbox achieves just that while preserving the functionality of the OEM paper filter.
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Richard
If you are really curious about K&N filters and how well they filter then do a search on Pelican. There are lab tests referenced that show that they let thru bigger particles than the common paper filter which could be detrimental to the long-term health of your engine. The oil has also been shown to have detrimental effects to AFMs, particularly the hot wire type, if the filters are slightly over oiled. My own personal opinion is that K&N is a classic example of the triumph of marketing over reality.
Of course if you want a cool noise (don't we all?) then the drilled airbox achieves just that while preserving the functionality of the OEM paper filter.
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][][]Richard
I agree with all your comments, however,
A mini does not have an AFM, which is what I am concerned about getting damaged by the larger particles.
Larger particles will not hurt the engine, they will be incinerated due to the heat before it gets near the bores/rings and before the valve's seat "In My Opinion" (I could be wrong).
A mini does not have an AFM, which is what I am concerned about getting damaged by the larger particles.
Larger particles will not hurt the engine, they will be incinerated due to the heat before it gets near the bores/rings and before the valve's seat "In My Opinion" (I could be wrong).
carreracat
New member
I was given "Induction Kit 3.2 Carrera 5 - 8 bhp" from porscheshop.co.uk (see http://www.porscheshop.co.uk/acatalog/porsche_911_engine_induction.html#a2016)
as a gift, which I currently have fitted.
IMHO it looks a bit better than the original air box (not that I spend a lot of time looking in my engine bay when I'm driving) but although I've not had it dyno'd, I'd be extremely surprised if there was any real rise in bhp - certainly not 8.
That said, I doubt you'd notice what would be only about a 3% rise anyway?
The noise is a definate improvement (which of course is subjective!), but I would say it's not as good as taking the air box off and ductaping the OEM filter in place, that was a fantastic induction noise (Thanks for that tip Richard!)
I see porscheshop now do a Carbondynamic air box, but it seems a little expensive unless someone is sure there's going to be some power gain? I can certainly think of other places to spend 200 odd quid on the car.
as a gift, which I currently have fitted.
IMHO it looks a bit better than the original air box (not that I spend a lot of time looking in my engine bay when I'm driving) but although I've not had it dyno'd, I'd be extremely surprised if there was any real rise in bhp - certainly not 8.
That said, I doubt you'd notice what would be only about a 3% rise anyway?
The noise is a definate improvement (which of course is subjective!), but I would say it's not as good as taking the air box off and ductaping the OEM filter in place, that was a fantastic induction noise (Thanks for that tip Richard!)
I see porscheshop now do a Carbondynamic air box, but it seems a little expensive unless someone is sure there's going to be some power gain? I can certainly think of other places to spend 200 odd quid on the car.
E34 5 series (circa 1995 build) was a lot more advanced than the Mini but there was no problem with that.
What other "bolt on" performance mods have people invested in ?
What other "bolt on" performance mods have people invested in ?
Guest
New member
The best bolt-ons are exhaust and a chip, in terms of bang for buck. You need a custom chip written after a dyno run with AFRs. The highest numbers seem to come from an SSI style exhaust but the std exhaust with a free-flow muffler is not far behind. Folks are seeing 245-255hp on the WRC Tecnologies dyno. If you consider carbs a bolt on then they offer a useful boost to the top-end in particular. I know a carbed and SSI'd 3.2 making 260hp. If you add cams into that mix then 280+ is possible. ITBs offer even more possiblilities than carbs but you need an aftermarket engine management system to run them, so not really bolt-on. A late plastic 964 intake is also bolt-on and flows a lot more air than the 3.2 intake, but until you are making 260+hp, the std one is not holding you back.
Steve Wong now offers this - a carbon airbox with MAF. Yet to be dynoed though.
Steve Wong now offers this - a carbon airbox with MAF. Yet to be dynoed though.
nigelp
New member
I've just bought a Hayward and Scott sports exhaust system for my car. I'll be dynoing it before and after with standard airbox and filter and we'll see where we go after that. It's the ex-Richard Tipler exhaust, that'll teach me to read Porsche World!
I intend to leave well alone but I may be tempted with a chip, who knows!
I intend to leave well alone but I may be tempted with a chip, who knows!
Guest
New member
You are leaving a lot of hp on the table without the chip. Once you have a baseline dyno for before and after, you can send the AFRs to Steve Wong for a custom chip. Just look at Ian's car. It made 240hp with its mildly modified exhaust, then made 255hp with the chip. I think Ian's car is unusual in its absolute numbers, it also makes more torque than any 3.2 I have seen, but it is representative of what an exhaust and chip upgrade can get you. If you start at a healthy 225+hp, then you should get to 250+hp.
The full H&S sytem is a good one for peak hp as it has bigger primaries than SSIs. It will hurt you a fraction in midrange but will breath very well at the top end.
The full H&S sytem is a good one for peak hp as it has bigger primaries than SSIs. It will hurt you a fraction in midrange but will breath very well at the top end.
Bought one of the Kokeln induction setups from pistonheads for a very good price
http://www.kokeln.com/products/911_8489/aircl_kit.shtml
Steve Wong reckons you'll be lucky to make more than a couple of bhp above 5000rpm, so don't go thinking they're a supercharger replacement! However, sound is great and it looks pretty neat when fitted.
http://www.kokeln.com/products/911_8489/aircl_kit.shtml
Steve Wong reckons you'll be lucky to make more than a couple of bhp above 5000rpm, so don't go thinking they're a supercharger replacement! However, sound is great and it looks pretty neat when fitted.
I agree with Richard. Get the breathing and exhaust sorted out, dyno, then get a custom chip burned. I went this route and mine made 253bhp and 220lbs/ft with an H&S system and SW custom chip. More importantly my torque curve now has a nice flat top so the car feels better to drive.
Guest
New member
Looking forward to pictures. Where are you getting dyno numbers and on what type of dyno? Just curious because most folks in the South have been using Weltmeister and their Dyno Dynamics dyno which made fairly valid comparisons easy.
Short of ITBs or Carbs, I think a late 964 plastic intake with SW MAF would be a great combo. I wonder if SW can work out a way to open the resonance flap with 3.2 motronic control?
Short of ITBs or Carbs, I think a late 964 plastic intake with SW MAF would be a great combo. I wonder if SW can work out a way to open the resonance flap with 3.2 motronic control?
The Dyno was atStar performance , Fife , Scotland.
The remap was by Wayne Schofield who is pretty experienced and in his opinion the Dyno was not at all optimistic.
It was also boiling hot in there when my car was on the Dyno and is much better in normal coolish air.
You can see the car was revved up to nearly 7000 rpm Gains are mostly top end but I am happy with the work -it is a screamer of an engine now and throttle response is very sharp.
The remap was by Wayne Schofield who is pretty experienced and in his opinion the Dyno was not at all optimistic.
It was also boiling hot in there when my car was on the Dyno and is much better in normal coolish air.
You can see the car was revved up to nearly 7000 rpm Gains are mostly top end but I am happy with the work -it is a screamer of an engine now and throttle response is very sharp.
Guest
New member
Please post a pick of the induction if you can - sounds interesting.
I wasn't suggesting that the dyno was optimistic, just saying that it is easier to compare when using the same dyno and facility. Otherwise, I think dynos are good for seeing before/after tuning results and not so good for ultimate comparisons of hp. For example, look at the engine and wheel outputs from your graph. Transmission losses are (rough calculation) over 20%. Most dynojet operators use 15% to convert from wheel to engine hp and Dyno Dynamics have used engine dynos and worked with Porsche to calculate the real transmission loss. Just to be clear, I am not saying your engine does or does not produce "x". Wayne is very good at tuning 3.2s so I have no reason to doubt that you have a really strong engine []
RB
I wasn't suggesting that the dyno was optimistic, just saying that it is easier to compare when using the same dyno and facility. Otherwise, I think dynos are good for seeing before/after tuning results and not so good for ultimate comparisons of hp. For example, look at the engine and wheel outputs from your graph. Transmission losses are (rough calculation) over 20%. Most dynojet operators use 15% to convert from wheel to engine hp and Dyno Dynamics have used engine dynos and worked with Porsche to calculate the real transmission loss. Just to be clear, I am not saying your engine does or does not produce "x". Wayne is very good at tuning 3.2s so I have no reason to doubt that you have a really strong engine [
]RB
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