Insurance Warning Hagerty

Richard Dawson · Feb 12, 2009

Following recommends to try Haggerty I did. All I can say is BE CAREFUL.

1. Email quotes gave 2 prices

2. "Darren" (who apparently has a number of "track cars") is not happy about insuring cars on Toyo 888s or the like due to their poor wet performance on roads. Not sure where that takes you with a car on Cups.

If you tend not to go out in the wet you are ok though. I would love to see how that plays out at the time of a claim if it is raining.

3. The Nurburgring is not a road as it is not subject to any German road laws and so you are not covered. Their policy does not say this...

A common one this but both the policy must specifically exclude and in any event his premice is wrong.

We agreed to leave the conversation there.

I will stick to NU direct!

And remeber you have been warned to ask Darren first if it is too wet to go out and what brand of tyre you use...

Laurence Gibbs · Feb 12, 2009

This opens a can of worms with regards to tyres. Are they a "modification" ? What was standard fit and is it still available. Do cars that are now 15+ years old have to run with what are now old design tyres. ???
I guess Darren might have gone into hyperspace if he'd seen me during my house move driving the RS over to the garage in the snow on R888's [

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jason · Feb 12, 2009

1. Always speak to them rather than email I find

2. Not sure what all this is all about on tyres...they've never had any probs with mine...your post does sound like you were both having a bit of an argument though...which never helps if you were[

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3. Hardly anyone covers the Ring. Those that say they may...watch them squirm out of it come claim time[

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Ben Savill · Feb 12, 2009

Unless the policy states in a warranty or condition ( condition being exactly that, either it is adhered to or you have no cover; warranty does not null and void the contract but is subjective ) that the cover is offered on the basis that the car is not run on Toyo 888's or more track focused tyres then you have cover.

If it states in the listing of exclusions that the car when run on Toyo 888's or similar is not covered then clearly it is not covered.

Laurence raises a good point regards "modification" though. I'll be having a look this evening to see what the policy definition of "modification" is.

The argument works the other way too - normal road tyres getting too hot with over extended use.

When you got the two prices - was there any change in coverage, what was the time period elapsed between them. A quote is only open for a defined period of time.

chfs911 · Feb 12, 2009

Oh great it is renewal tiime and I was going to try their multi car policy.

Mine are all on Cups or slicks.

Classic line always covered Spa and the Ring. Not sure what their new broker will cover? Did you ask about Spa Laurence?

AON or Footman James then.

jason · Feb 12, 2009

Well they cover all mine on a multi car policy and with one bing the 73RSR rep they know fine well how much of it is not original (virtually none of it!)....and they covered it no problem whatsoever....and on just a chassis number before I'd even had it registered in the UK.

In 10 years of insuring various porsches they were in a different class to any other insurer I've ever used and considerably more knowledgeable about every model of mine then anyone else....

Classicline used to be good but were so much more expensive at renewal a few years back and A.Manning were absolute class on my claim but far more expensive and couldn't cover the RSR [

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ChrisW · Feb 12, 2009

I have three cars with them --- 993RS, 964RS N-GT and 968CS.

They did have some concerns, I gave them lots of information which I guessed would help, and no problem.

Spa is covered, Nurburgring not --- but I don't know anybody who does ?

Elliot · Feb 12, 2009

Please note they do not cover use of classics to and from place of work.

cheers

ChrisW · Feb 12, 2009

Everything is a negotiation.

What they don't want is a regular driver presented as a Classic.

I drive all my cars on a regular basis and this sometimes includes to and from work ... but for distances I have a Polo Bluemotion !!

kitchens · Feb 12, 2009

I know it is not the same type of car as you guys drive and one would assume you all do track days etc I have just taken out a multi car policy with Admiral for the Boxster 06 and a Merc CLK 01 for £320 and it clearly states that it excludes any track days ..use on the Nurburgring Nordschleife have never noticed this restriction printed out before always new track days not covered on any other policies before have to say my days are over for track days but I would have liked to have done the Oldtimers GP again and would have taken the car round the Ring at a gentle pace.so beware of the small print

Bertroex · Feb 12, 2009

I have the SC, the C3 as well as the jubilee insured with Hagerty. Of all the companies I used (Aon, Classic Line, Lancaster, A Manning) Hagerty were very personable, correct, professional and they are genuine petrolheads to boot.
(not the: "A porsch [sic] 911? Riiiiiiiiight. Is that a diesel, Sir? nonsense)

I deal with Phil Dunne and him and his collegues came up trumps. A bold statement perhaps but I mean it: a credit for their industry in all their communication.

You might find that a lot of the insurers have taken out the Nuerburgring in their cover. I recall that at some point it was considered a Toll Road so hence you would be covered. Too many clowns driving badly warned the industy thus we end up paying extra. But hey ho: I don't mind.

Best regards,

Bert

Richard Dawson · Feb 13, 2009

My point is as said above, the policy is a legal document and there is or should be no space for grey discussions about use of Toyos and their ilk and whether you drive in heavy rain. Either Toyos are acceptable or they are not.

For them not to be acceptable then I suggest there needs to be a specific exclusion or wording requiring homologated tyres only ?

It is the same with the 'Ring. It is either excluded specifically, which is fine, or as it is a German road then it is covered.

Insurance is not about opinion but fact based on clear wording in a policy. How do Darren's policy mods fit in at claim time and which clauses in the policy do they relate to. An insurance policy, beyond the minimum legal need is there to cover your car. It is not a great load of use if at claim time you are in an argument about coverage. It won't be Darren who pays out....

My email was designed to warn those with Haggerty policies or tose taking them out to check the policy wording given the odd discussion I had about tyres and the 'Ring .

h_____ · Feb 13, 2009

Richard are you saying that your policy explicitly mentions tyre types? So that there is a clause naming triple 888s as not covered? Seems odd, need to go read my policy, cant recal any specifics about brands in it.

Richard Dawson · Feb 13, 2009

Sorry, no. My point was that the policy you can read on their website does not contain such a clause and so I am entirely unclear as to what this guy is doing!

Presumably the details about toyos and use in the wet I discussed with him would have to be set out on the proposal form and in the policy schedule/endorsement section?

The broker is not the one who will be called to pay out and these sorts of discussions at the point of sale are entirely worrying unless they are fully recorded.

h_____ · Feb 13, 2009

OK got it, then yes the conversations seem a little odd.

jason · Feb 13, 2009

Richard seems you have had a conversation with them entirely different to what most of us have with them.

Maybe they were having an off day but I'm happy with them and I'm changing two sets of tyres next week[

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Ben Savill · Feb 13, 2009

Hence my comments earlier. Unless there is a specific exclusion or it is warranted that the car will not be run on 888's then you have cover. As you say, it is a legally binding contract where there should be no grey areas.

If it has been expressly mentioned during renewal conversations and coverage is offered on that basis then it clearly should be formally endorsed to the standard contract - there should be no room for ambiguity.

ORIGINAL: Richard Dawson

My point is as said above, the policy is a legal document and there is or should be no space for grey discussions about use of Toyos and their ilk and whether you drive in heavy rain. Either Toyos are acceptable or they are not.

For them not to be acceptable then I suggest there needs to be a specific exclusion or wording requiring homologated tyres only ?

It is the same with the 'Ring. It is either excluded specifically, which is fine, or as it is a German road then it is covered.

Insurance is not about opinion but fact based on clear wording in a policy. How do Darren's policy mods fit in at claim time and which clauses in the policy do they relate to. An insurance policy, beyond the minimum legal need is there to cover your car. It is not a great load of use if at claim time you are in an argument about coverage. It won't be Darren who pays out....

My email was designed to warn those with Haggerty policies or tose taking them out to check the policy wording given the odd discussion I had about tyres and the 'Ring .

Laurence Gibbs · Feb 14, 2009

Out of interest what sort of premium does the multicar policy end up at ? And how do you get round the usual problem that renewal dates are all different ? And what then happens at renewal time if the renewal quote is a bit much ? I guess you end up with a number of cars uninsured rather than one ? And all having to be covered at once !!???

jason · Feb 14, 2009

they just add cars to your original policy and increase the value of the policy. Adding my 67S cost me about £80!!!!

I'm guessing all renewal dates finish at same time but tbh I can't remember now...will check for you Lawrence

Richard Dawson · Feb 16, 2009

It is interesting the differences in experience that we all have, beyond the inevitable due to differing specific details.

I do not understand the insurance market but to give you an idea best quote classicline at £576, worst quote Heritage (PCGB sponsor) £2012...

The business with tyres etc that I have raised is bizarre; they are the only broker to ask. I remain of the view that non "standard" tyres are not a modification, but has anyone any thoughts on that? If we run a non N rated tyre is that a risk we run?

Trouble is with all this no one knows until you wrap your car up at the 'Ring, on a track etc and make that call how these issues will resolve. Never bothered too much before but with rising values you start to have to a little bit.