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Intermediate Shaft / Bearing Failures

berty987

New member
I am curious to know how many 986, 987, and 996, 997 owners are aware of the potential for engine failure due to intermediate shaft/ bearing failure. The problem seems to affect all of the above cars save those models using the earlier 964 bottom end (Turbo and GT3). Typically those cars with failures tend to occur at about 30K miles regardless of how the car has been maintained or driven. The question is , hoew many M96 engines 986, 987, 997 , 996 cars are there out there that have passed 45K without issue , and how many have failed ? My questions are , how significant is the problem, what number of cars are affected and have Porsche done anything to recognise or remedy the problem ?

I would be interested to see how many Boxster / 911 models fitted with this engine have passed the 30-45k mileage mark without issue.
 
Had several of each since 1997, with no such problems.

BTW, GT3 and TT have the GT1 block.
 
This method won't give any useful statistics because it relies on every owner replying. The only way is to contact Porsche GB or the parent company, and they will probably be reluctant to give any information.
 
As they would not comment a couple of years ago to the club on the number of RMS failures I don't think they are likely to have anything to say on Intermediate Shaft failures either.

Why would they? This is after all commercially sensitive information. I seriously doubt any manufacturer would gve out the number of failures of it's product (unless it is so small it can be seen as a marketing advantage to do so!)

I'd like to now the answer by the way - so that I can tell the people who phone me up because they have been worried by seeing threads like this one! [&:]
 
Hi

I've got a 2001 boxster (2.7) - with 70,000 on the clock, no shaft/ bearing failure (yet! touches wood quickly) I was advised of an RMS problem at the last service but I'm hanging on for any signs of clutch problems before I shell out for it fixing as no problems with loss of oil either on the indicator or on the dipstick.

Is it possible to count how many 'hits this thread gets and work out some kind of representative statistic that way?

ps any comments either of caution or encouragement re my RMS gratefully accepted!

Steve H
 
ORIGINAL: steveb63

Is it possible to count how many 'hits this thread gets and work out some kind of representative statistic that way?

Not really...
Every time someone replies I take a look and bump the view count up by 1 - and I bet I'm not the only one [:D]

No meaningful stats there I'm afraid [&o]
 
Unfortunately then , Porsche owners need to consider a full warranty or take a risk on the engine failing and a 10 k repair bill , possibly offset by some Porsche GB goodwill. Working as an engineer in industry i'm perfectly aware that bearing failure is random , but more prevalent in early life and again at end of service life. Random failures (at 30k )ocurring in significant numbers , and i would suggest that 200,000 units is small beer compared to the number of 1.8t VW units produced that do not have this issue , implies there is something incorrect in design or manufacture of the bearing.
My suspicion is the bearing is either incorrectly sized for its loading , or there has been some defect in the material or manufacturing process. As to the intermediate shaft , again this could be due to multiple reasons , but the symptoms of failure tend to suggest a weakness in the part at a certain point. Again , this could be due to sub standard materials in the casting process, or poor machining and assembly.
With such uncertainty and significant cost if the item fails , this problem should be recognised by porsche and some official statement made. With each failure reported , the confidence in the brand is knocked. Only by admitting to the issue and identifying how it has been remedied will the bad press go away and potential loss of sales avoided. Porsche have little to gain over curbing losses on used car sales , but if the brand starts to get a reputation for unreliability it will take years to lose.
Competitiors are now offering a viable alternative to the 911 , porsche need to be absolutely sure , brand confidence is strong. Issues with unconfirmed engine releiability are not going to enhance sales.
I'm not trying to scaremonger , just identify that there appears to be something amiss with this model engine resulting in abnormal numbers of these units failing prematurely. As a porsche customer , I would like some assurances that I do not need to budget for a 900 pound warranty each year , and possibility of being stranded as a result of ownership. Not all cars fail at 30k , why is this not publicised and put those with cars that have nothing to worry about at rest. I suspect only when the cost of putting the cars right (a recall or agreement to repair) is outweighed by losses in brand confidence will Porsche release the true figures and reasons for failure. In the meantime sweep it under the carpet , and pretend there are not really 200,000 + porsche customers going to give the brand bad press for an unexpected and premature engine failure on a car just out of an already short warranty.
 
Unfortunately then , Porsche owners need to consider a full warranty or take a risk on the engine failing and a 10 k repair bill , possibly offset by some Porsche GB goodwill. Working as an engineer in industry i'm perfectly aware that bearing failure is random , but more prevalent in early life and again at end of service life. Random failures (at 30k )ocurring in significant numbers , and i would suggest that 200,000 units is small beer compared to the number of 1.8t VW units produced that do not have this issue , implies there is something incorrect in design or manufacture of the bearing.
My suspicion is the bearing is either incorrectly sized for its loading , or there has been some defect in the material or manufacturing process. As to the intermediate shaft , again this could be due to multiple reasons , but the symptoms of failure tend to suggest a weakness in the part at a certain point. Again , this could be due to sub standard materials in the casting process, or poor machining and assembly.
With such uncertainty and significant cost if the item fails , this problem should be recognised by porsche and some official statement made. With each failure reported , the confidence in the brand is knocked. Only by admitting to the issue and identifying how it has been remedied will the bad press go away and potential loss of sales avoided. Porsche have little to gain over curbing losses on used car sales , but if the brand starts to get a reputation for unreliability it will take years to lose.
Competitiors are now offering a viable alternative to the 911 , porsche need to be absolutely sure , brand confidence is strong. Issues with unconfirmed engine releiability are not going to enhance sales.
I'm not trying to scaremonger , just identify that there appears to be something amiss with this model engine resulting in abnormal numbers of these units failing prematurely. As a porsche customer , I would like some assurances that I do not need to budget for a 900 pound warranty each year , and possibility of being stranded as a result of ownership. Not all cars fail at 30k , why is this not publicised and put those with cars that have nothing to worry about at rest. I suspect only when the cost of putting the cars right (a recall or agreement to repair) is outweighed by losses in brand confidence will Porsche release the true figures and reasons for failure. In the meantime sweep it under the carpet , and pretend there are not really 200,000 + porsche customers going to give the brand bad press for an unexpected and premature engine failure on a car just out of an already short warranty.

Agreed. It's the main reason why I take out a warranty..that and total engine failure. Otherwise it's not really worth it.
If you're looking for potential reasons as to the failure (some of which you have mentioned) read the Pistonheads thread. Baz Hartech (an Indy owner) has worked on many of these failed engines and you can see that the more information he has gathered the closer he is getting to the root cause of the problem. He gives very detailed analysis of the issues involved.
 
Why not write directly to Porsche UK and ask them, quoting the freedom of information act (which is applicable in Britain)
 
I am not sure that the FOIA applies to private businesses or close companies. It is in place to allow public access to official Government activities. Porsche may be doing well but they don't own UK ltd yet.
 
Very simple solution:

Why can't the Porsche Club conduct a poll - as they do for the JD Power survey.

Just create a form we (and all users) can fill in on the website, to report on their cars and any issues. Even if no issue, everyone could fill it in. Then say after 3 months we can have a clear statistical view. This can be kept updated on a rolling basis. Once and for all we need to put this to bed, or into perspective at least - not only for our peace of mind but also residuals !
 
As mentiond by John on another thread, on behalf of the Club, in 2003/4, I conducted a detailed survey on RMS replacements and engine failures with the membership Boxster and 996.

The resultant stats were meaningful and we took them to Porsche GB (and they passed them to AG). Some good did come out of this venture, but it was a lot of work, not to be undertaken lightly. At that time, there was a lot of concern over RMS and we needed some hard facts.
 
I am on my 3rd Boxter first registered 2/1/2006 currently has 33,000 on the clock no problems (yet) my other 2 were both bought form new, both did over 35k within 2 years, without problems. However if you really want to wake Porsche up to the problem, ( if there is a problem) and get Porsche owners who are not club members, to come out of the woodwork and get involved, approach the BBC's watchdog program. You will soon find out the extent of the problem and Porsche will have to come clean.

Rodney Collins
 
Rodney, I can't see that it is the sort of thing that Watchdog would have any great interest in. The issue for them generally comes in cases where manufacturers or providers are negligent in rectifying damaged or faulty stuff. Or in instances where folk have been short changed or suffered from some sort of criminal or negligent actions.

The truth is, all the time Porsche are viewing failures sympathetically and are offering to stump up for the significant majority of the cost of repairs, it could be argued that they are meeting their obligations in a favourable manner.

The fact that we feel it less than satisfactory that there should be such a noteable number of these failures is neither here nor there IMHO.
 

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