Intermitent not starting

[jam1976]

Last 2 weeks spent touring europe in my 1989 3.2, wot a great time. However, 2nd day on a long trip through Germany, stopped to check oil etc, after 2-3 hours of driving. switched engine off once oil check comp. 2 mins later went to start & wouldn't. Ignition lights all came on but wouldn't fire. checked fuses relays etc but all appeared ok. bumped started no problem, carried on to stuttgart. did the musium came out started no problem.
Only happened once again in 2 week period 3000 miles till yesterday arrived at the ferry after 600 miles switched engine off for 45 mins while waiting to load onto ferry our time came went to start and dead again same symtoms. same when came to get off the ferry, same after 200 mile journy home, unloaded bags went to move car would start. this morning went to move it out of the garage to give a good wash and STARTED as should. wot do u reckon
Solinoid ( there is no click when the ignition is turned)
Starter moter
Battery
???

 

[burrow01]

Does the engine turn over when you try to start it?

Pete

 

[bones]

If the red ignition lights are coming on and you are not getting the starter to turn the engine over, initially suspect the immobiliser or a dodgy starter motor. You can sometimes persuade a reluctant starter motor to work with a tap from a large spanner!

 

[jam1976]

I initally thought immobiliser prob. but i'm sure it isn't.would it bump start?
If its the starter motor wouldn't you still get the click from the solenoid as it switches.
I've tried rocking it gently while in gear to release the starter motor, no luck though.
i suspect a bad earth ?
Dodgy solenoid ?
Or do they suffer some how from long hot journeys ?

James

Sorry about the bad spelling

 

[bones]

It shouldn't bump start with a faulty immobiliser so rule that out for now, test for voltage at the starter motor and yes you should here the solenoid click. On the electrical front 3.2 seem to suffer from DME and DME relay issues buy spares as a matter of course and fit them, apparently they are reasonably cheap, most 3.2 owners advise keeping spares. Hot starting problems can be caused by a faulty fuel accumulator as the fuel in the fuel rails vaporises but a cold start some hours later when the engine has cooled should still be possible. In your case as it won't even turn over something seems to be breaking down under heat so supect the DME its relay or a bad connection somewhere to the starter, next time it happens if you haven't already replaced the DME try unplugging the DME , reconnect and try again.

 

[jam1976]

I've heard alot about the DME relay where is it wots it look like and wot does it specifically do ? shall i pick 1 up from OPC or smaller indepent cheaper.
I don't want to be replacing things willy nilly how do i narrow it down.
i want to be confident i'm replacing the correct item, i don't want to feel i'e got to carry a car full of passenges to bump start me if it decides to fail again
Thanks again
james

 

[bones]

I'm not a 3.2 expert so wait till a few people get back from their day out driving in the sun and you'll get all the replies you want. I'd buy a new one, OPC I guess.
I wouldn't normally recommend replacing parts before a thorough investigation but in the case of the 3.2's DME its a 'must carry around spare' just like spare bulbs, relays, engine fan belt etc.

 

[TopCarrera]

DME relay controls ECU functions. Starter should turn independently of ECU/DME relay. Suspect your poor earth/sticking solenoid theory to be the most likely or a poor contact developing at the starting position terminal at the ignition switch .......

 

[jam1976]

A poor contact developing at the starting position terminal at the ignition switch ???? wots that mean how do i check.
your a great font of knowledge how do i check the solenoid ?
intermitent when warm particulary, does that still sound like the solenoid ?
can i fit 1 myself
where is it

 

[tail_heavy]

I would also suspect the solenoid, in so far as the only time I had this before was on my Bosch-starter-motored-hard-driven-VW-1500-Beetle. Given the similarity of layouts, I should think the heat transfer is much the same. Certainly, the symptoms were identical, in that it first started to happen occasionally after very long hot runs, then gradually more frequently, but was always OK from cold. A new solenoid on the existing starter solved the problem.

I don't think the ever culpable DME relay is the prob here. I'm sure TopCarrera is right, the DME does not control the starter circuit.

 

[nathan 1981 930 G50]

Check the earth lead (or just replace it anyway with a new one) that connects the chassis to the nose of the transmission underneath the car (right hand side). It may even be missing. You just need a 13mm spanner.

Rocking your car in gear to move the starter isn't all you can do. Try hitting the starter with a hammer, if the brushes have worn this will just get them to make a contact. Hitting will also free a stuck solenoid.
Replace the starter if hitting helps.