Just How fast Does a 944s "Feel?"

[Guest]

I am picking up my 944s tomorrow morning, and was wondering how fast it "Felt"?

I had the pleasure of being out in Lamborghini Gallardo the other day. Now that was Proper quick. And I have been in a few fast cars in my time...

Question is, will it feel fast, or am I building this up in my head too much []

Wanted a 944 since i was a kid, so I am hyper as anything at the moment....
I am going to buy a Throttle cam as well, after reading the other thread....[]

 

[sbloxxy]

Interesting one this; well they are fast but I don't think they feel that fast. And thats something to watch out for; I was often caught out when driving my S2 by thinking I was pottering along nicely and then realising that was travelling much faster than I should have been. The other problem is that after a while, you get used to the performance and it loses its thrill. Drive another (normal) car every now and then, just to remind yourself how fast - not to mention good - a 944 is.

 

[Guest]

Glad you got what I mean.. I was not sure that I articulated myself very well...

Driving back up from London tomorrow back upto Glasgow, so I should get to know the car very well with that drive...[]

 

[Diver944]

The thing with speed, power and performance is they are all relative compared to what you are used to. The standard benchmark figures for a 944 S are:

0-60 7.5 / 0-100 21.1 / 1/4 mile 15.7. / Max 142

so how does that compare?

For example, for the past year I've been mostly driving a diesel van and every time I get in my wifes S2 it feels like a Rocket Ship! Yet last year when I was driving my Turbo, her S2 felt positively pedestrian.

I do know that when comparing your S with a Gallardo you will positively have it beaten hands down

on fuel economy and luggage capacity [] Enjoy your new toy - its going to be fun.

 

[Fen]

If you're used to anything fast it won't feel fast - because it isn't in real terms. My hearse would show a Lux a sooty pair of heels in a straight line drag I'm sure.

 

[DavidL]

I've had a 944S for 6 months now and this speed impression is a bit odd. As has been said it depends what you compare it with. We have a Caterham and an Impreza and it doesn't feel nearly as quick off the mark as the Caterham (coz it isn't) yet by the time you are doing 50-60 I am travelling faster in the 944 without realising it. I think it has something to do with the noise (or lack of it).
Once moving it will do country A roads comfortably at 70 and you only realise when you look at the speedo.
If you don't change up and keep your foot planted beyond 4000 rpm then just when you think it will start to bog down a little it seems a lot more free revving and really starts to move. I haven't driven any other 944 variants to compare it with but it is a comfortably quick (not fast) drive and will overtake quite nicely.
The S gets a lot of critism for being expensive to run with its double cam without the power of the S2 but its not a bad drive at all.
I have to say the Impreza (standard WRX) just feels quick across the board which is why a slightly modded 944 turbo may be on the shopping list soon. Can't have the Japanese having it all their own way.

 

[dlknight]

ORIGINAL: dubbedup

I am picking up my 944s tomorrow morning, and was wondering how fast it "Felt"?

Wanted a 944 since i was a kid, so I am hyper as anything at the moment....
I am going to buy a Throttle cam as well, after reading the other thread....[]

Good choice and welcome to the forum.

I also have a 944S and have previously owned a 944 Lux, as everyone before me has said its not fast as in supercar fast but it is quick. I have previously kept myself glued to the back of an Impreza WRX when the driver decided to show me some exhaust (on a private test track). Also had fun with a BMW 330CI again on the private test track.

Forget the throttle cam though as the 944S already has it as standard as does the S2 and probably the Turbo. The best improvement is a performance chip. I have recently had a Promax Chip fitted and the difference is night and day ! The power is now delivered much more smoothly and from lower rev's, meaning that you don't have to keep the rev needle embedded above 3,000 all the time. It also feels much more quicker 0-60, 0-100 etc... but won't really know the improvement till I get it back on the Weltmeister rolling road.

Anyway, happy 944S ownership and don't forget to get your timing and balance belts checked out, also the cams and the timing chain that link the two together. Fen will tell you how expensive changing cams can be.

Regards

Dave K.

 

[sawood12]

At 7.5sec 0-60 it is in the territory of most modern hot hatches. I've got a reasonable amount of milage under my belt in several hot hatches (Type R, Cupra R 210, Cupra R 222, TT225, Golf GTi) and I would think that driven well your 944 will be able to smoke these cars because the strongest thing about any 944 is it's handling. Once you get used to RWD from FWD you're cornering speeds will be a good 10 - 20mph quicker without working up too much of a sweat. Just make sure you take some time to get used to the car before you start to push it. It is an old car without the care-free handling of modern cars so they can bite back. A guy down the road from me bought a lux shortly after I got my turbo and he lasted 3 days before putting it into a ditch. By his own admission he was caught out and was simply pushing it too hard too soon.

Anyway, enjoy the car and invest in a couple of track days to really get a feel for what it can do.

 

[eastendr]

A Gallardo is not a fair benchmark to choose. I've had a play with one in WUF.

When I first got my 944S back on 1990 it felt agile but not fast. Certainly not much faster than the 944 Lux I had 6 years earlier. I have to say it now feels a lot more agile after wheel / tyre / suspension / brakes uprates.

However, it doesn't feel faster. This is almost definately because it's about 30 BHP down on factory figures. This looks to be due to valve guides and has been confirmed as a typical symptom of a 944S with over 100,000 miles. Over the winter, the head will come off and be rebuilt with new guides etc to prove it one way or the other.

Modification wise, it has an ESS rear exhaust section, Cone air filter and A Blitz chip. The first two made virtually no difference. The chip did make a good difference to the power and cost an extremely reasonable £50 or thereabouts. The fuelling is not particularly good, though.

Interesting that the car attracts an inflated insurance premium because of the mods, but is proved to currently produce only 175 BHP against a claimed factory standard power of 192 BHP - that's still 17 BHP down from standard .... I'd certainly get any newly purchased 944S checked on a dyno to see how down on power it is.

But firstly and most importantly as mentioned above, get the cam chain and tensioner and probably belts changed by a specialist as soon as possible. These things are a real potential weakness on this engine unless properly serviced and looked after and you REALLY don't want to know how much it'll cost you to replace a head on a 944S (good ones are like rocking-horse poo), or bent valves etc.

So ultimately to recap ... no, against a supercar it will feel like a milk float. The engine doesn't have a lot of torque and relies on it's extended 6,800 RPM redline to really get shifting - making it harder work than an S2, or even LUX.

That said, it is an extremely enjoyable car to drive - much more so than my WRX-RA which would leave it for dead in a traffic light grand prix, but on a reasonable journey involving A and B roads, you would probably arrive about the same time, much more relaxed, MUCH more economically and above all, still with a smile on your face in the 944S.

HTH

Rick.

 

[John Sims]

I found the only problem with my Lux (an S being very similar) was, because it had a Porsche badge and pop up headlamps, every Chav I came across wanted to race me.

As noted previously, the Lux/S would perhaps beat a hot hatch over a distance but not immediately and not decisively. If you get a hot hatch tailgating you at 70 you aren't going to pull away from him until you get into immediate licence loss territory. This was one of the reasons I changed to a Turbo where the transition between 70 and 80 is so dramatic that Chavs know they are beaten without going further.

However.....

On our last two Scotland tours, in among tunned Turbos we had a 924S (Lux on a diet). While we all thought we would spend most of the week stopping and waiting for the 924 this was far from the case. In fact on one particular evening blat with Rick (WUF The Magic Turbot), Rich in Sian's 924 and myself in Beaky I gave up trying to keep up - I did have Belinda and Peter in the car in my defence [&o] and Rich is a very good driver, and it wasn't his car, and he is a Scouser so drives most things like he stole it.

 

[jr2015]

Hi,
I`ve driven a couple of 16 valvers and prefer the low-down Torque of my 8-valve.My advice is not to forget that its a heavy car and use the gears.BTW, get the belts checked out ASAP,neglect can be expensive.
regards,
jr.

 

[random hero]

My old 84 lux didnt seem that fast but you have to remeber it was quite a heavy car and 160bhp was alot back in the day but most normal cars are near that figure now.I used to have an astra gte 16v that was quicker , but the porsche seemed to pick up much better mid range. I wouldnt get hung up on the speed just enjoy it for what its is !!!

 

[zcacogp]

However, it doesn't feel faster. This is almost definately because it's about 30 BHP down on factory figures. This looks to be due to valve guides and has been confirmed as a typical symptom of a 944S with over 100,000 miles. Over the winter, the head will come off and be rebuilt with new guides etc to prove it one way or the other. ... Blitz chip ... make a good difference to the power and cost an extremely reasonable £50 or thereabouts.

Interesting. My S2 produced 203.5 on a rolling road a couple of weeks ago, with 120,000 miles on the clock. High milage is not necessarily a reason for such huge power loss.

However, I'm interested in the fact that the chip made a good difference to the power output. I have toyed with the idea of chipping mine, and decided not to bother - I couldn't find anyone who has fitted a chip to an S2 who would actually say that it made any significant difference. Good to hear that it worked for you on the S tho'.


Oli.

 

[Fen]

S2's with similar miles to yours tend to make the mid to high 190bhp figure on the 944 power league accepted standard Weltmeister dyno, suggesting they don't lose so much power as Rick has seen his S lose.

I don't think the chips help much in headline figures, but they do improve driveability a little, particularly under 4,000rpm and smoothing the transition around that engine speed when the engine suddenly starts to pull.

 

[944turboS]

Interesting. My S2 produced 203.5 on a rolling road a couple of weeks ago, with 120,000 miles on the clock. High milage is not necessarily a reason for such huge power loss.

S2's with similar miles to yours tend to make the mid to high 190bhp figure on the 944 power league accepted standard Weltmeister dyno,

Mine made 206bhp on the rollers of truth, removing the cat realy made a difference to my car & at £65 was a very cheap improvement.

 

[dlknight]

Hey all,

My "S" made 173hp on the "rollers of truth" back in May, and was totally standard. I've since fitted a Promax Chip and changed to BP Ultimate fuel. The difference is massive, I know there are some sceptics amongst us. Fact is the 944S is a quick car, provided that the engine and running gear are in a good condition. You need to wake it up a little by keeping the rev counter above 4k but once you've built up the rev's it really flys ! all the way to 7k.

I will put my flame retardent suit in anticipation of the replies []

I hope we organise another day out at Weltmeister soon so that I can compare the difference, I'm guessing that I've found the lost 17bhp to make the quoted 190bhp figure from Porsche.

Regards

Dave K.

 

[Guest]

I found my S2 (in retrospect) to be deceptively quick. I knew my new barge (330D) wouldn't match it in a straight line, but thought with the sports suspension pack the 2001 RWD saloon should at least match the 1991 coupe.

No such luck! The Beemer moves around in an uninspiring way near the limit and I consistently find myself going everywhere 10mph slower than when I was in the S2, which by comparison leaned in to the corners, gripped and slungshot me out with no apparent bother.

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: lockup

I found my S2 (in retrospect) to be deceptively quick. I knew my new barge (330D) wouldn't match it in a straight line, but thought with the sports suspension pack the 2001 RWD saloon should at least match the 1991 coupe.

No such luck! The Beemer moves around in an uninspiring way near the limit and I consistently find myself going everywhere 10mph slower than when I was in the S2, which by comparison leaned in to the corners, gripped and slungshot me out with no apparent bother.

Interesting ... I would have thought that the 330D (3.0 turbo'd derv, non?) with a rather more modern chassis (and therefore dynamics) and engine would have been a pretty fair match for an S2 - if not a bit quicker. What with the hallowed blue-and-white spinner being 'The Ultimate Driving Machine' and all that.

Glad I didn't buy one then, in retrospect ... sounds like the S2 was a better choice.


Oli.

 

[Fen]

I'm pretty sure my 530d is quicker than an S2, possibly not on a twisty switchback B road, but in a straight line and on sweeping A-roads I think it would be.

 

[eastendr]

There's a recent thread on Rennlist showing a chip upgrade tested on an S2 using a Mustang dyno. Both tests carried out within an hour - basically standard chip / change chip and run again. Power increase was 2HP and 4TQ improvement at the rear wheels.

I've just had some Dyno Dynamics graphs sent to me from the USA from a trusted 951/944S owner. His figures on the DD (same as Weltmeister) are below

Porsche 944S

141/137 RWHP/RWTQ STD
152/144 RWHP/RWTQ With SFR Exhaust
155/149 RWHP/RWTQ With SFR Exhaust and prototype 944S MAX chip

154/145 RWHP/RWTQ Were the figures for baby WUF with ESS rear exhaust / cone air filter / Blitz Chip.

Here's the Link for Russell Berry's MAXCHIP website.http://www.maxhpkit.com/ Lots of interesting things on there and of course dyno graphs.

Rick.