KW V3 and T-bars

marcoturbo · Jan 10, 2008

Hello,

This isn't my first post here but I can't remind my old login and password... (I registered here more than one year ago).

I'm buying a KW V3 for my '86 951 but it's hard to find threads about these coil-over kits (maybe because KW is too short for the search function ? ).

I don't want my car to be lowered due to my garage ramps. TTM a friend of mine asked a question about this issue several months ago.

Should I however reindex T-bars ?

My car is a '86 951 with small (23.5) T-bars and the eccentrics on the rear arms are set to a high level. So I can lower the rear of the car with them to compensate for the stiffer springs . Could lowering this way be enough to limit the "Cayenne look" if I don't reindex T Bars ?

(I don't mind reindexing T Bars but it's really time consumpting and I still have a lot of jobs to do)

Thanks in advance.

Marc.

Diver944 · Jan 10, 2008

Hi Marco,

First off, good choice of suspension [

] The KW really does seem to be the one to have at the moment with several 944T guys having made the switch and a lot of 968's also. I always thought that you HAD to reindex the torsion bars to counteract the rear coilovers but I recently read a thread on the 968UK forum where a car had been fitted with KW and they did not touch the torsion bars. Ride height remained unchanged.

It was all done by Chris Franklin at http://www.centergravity.co.uk/ who is a recognised guru of suspension setup - maybe worth giving him a call.

TTM · Jan 10, 2008

Here is the thread, you lazy garlic eater :

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=314574&mpage=1&key=&#314574

marcoturbo · Jan 10, 2008

Paul, thanks for the feedback [

]

ORIGINAL: TTM

Here is the thread, you lazy garlic eater :

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=314574&mpage=1&key=&#314574

I know this thread... I was asking of reindexing T bars with my 924 upgraded T bars. If I could avoid reindexing and get a proper set-up, I know a little man who will be happy...

Peter Empson · Jan 10, 2008

When JZ fitted my Leda coil overs they didn't re-index the bars. I assume they just adjusted the eccentrics down a bit.

sawood12 · Jan 10, 2008

With KW's you will have to re-index the TB's. Eccentrics wont have anywhere near the right amount of adjustment range. I'm not sure how low you have to go but you will have to lower. Mine was set up with a nose-down attitude. It is probably lowered around 20mm at the rear from std and probably getting on for 30mm at the front. The front does look very low but so far i've had no problems with speed bumps or garage ramps. The garage I take my car to for MOT's the hydraulic jack on the ramp does bend the batwing under tray but does just clear the sump. The ramp at Promax, where the kit was installed, has no probs at all.

In anycase you've made the right choice, i'm chuffed to bits with my KW. Not a cheap install but gives you a night an day difference in handling and feel.

333pg333 · Jan 11, 2008

Yep I'm sure you will have to re-index too. Why don't you try and solve the problem from the other perspective. When I go to my mechanic's workshop they also have a very steep driveway and we have made some wooden 'chocks' that we put down inside the workshop so that my front tyres ride up on them and raise the car up the right amount. There is too much to be gained from getting the KW's to not install them properly.

marcoturbo · Jan 11, 2008

Thanks for the replies.

To sum up, I can try to lower the car with eccentrics but it's more than likely I'll have to reindex the T bars.

The 951 is a daily and family driver (with the roof rack [

]) and I want to keep a stock look. More, I can't solve the problemn from the other perspective. My garage ramps are 20 meters long (I live in Paris) and last month, I damaged the bumper and the batwing which hooked the parents-in-law's portal (in reverse gear)... I know there's a solution: I could move and change my wife...

steve 944t · Jan 11, 2008

The knowledgeable chaps at RPM fitted my KW without re-indexing. I guess it will vary from car to car with how much adjustment is available. Like Scott's, my car is slightly lower at the front, but does not look as though the back is on stilts.

marcoturbo · Jan 11, 2008

I like your ride height, it looks quite similar to mine

http://monsite.wanadoo.fr/marco.p/

appletonn · Jan 11, 2008

Marco, love the car, especially on those Fuchs wheels and how clean is that engine bay?!!![

]

Guest · Jan 11, 2008

How much is the KW's for the 944's ?

Tam Lin · Jan 11, 2008

When JZ fitted my KW v3 to a 924S, they also did not re-index the rear. Whilst this is alright per se, it does somewhat negate the point of having height-adjustable coil-overs at the rear. The car is at Promax at the mo having the TBs re-indexed, and a 944T plastic tank fitted (while they're there [

])

Hilux · Jan 11, 2008

it does somewhat negate the point of having height-adjustable coil-overs at the rear.

Possibly, however most people will not mess with the height once set as cause and effect means it upsets other geometry settings however the adjustability is there if you want it at later dates.

Dont forget that re-indexing is straightforward enough provided the mounts are ok otherwise its another cost so beware and allow a contingency.

Diver944 · Jan 11, 2008

ORIGINAL: Tam Lin

Whilst this is alright per se, it does somewhat negate the point of having height-adjustable coil-overs at the rear.

I know exactly what you mean but it is all personal choice really. When I fit KW's on mine I certainly do not want to go any lower than standard, but I do want the excellent damping on very firm shocks that the rear coilovers from KW provide.

Marco first asked if it could be fitted without re-indexing as he does not want to go any lower

The answer is yes you do not have to re-index

marcoturbo · Jan 11, 2008

Paul, thanks for the clear answer !

I don't plan on running my car on the track, I've spent too much money to damage her on bumpers. I want to upgrade my suspension (and brakes but that's another issue) to be able to keep a good driveability with the HP increase. KWs looks to outperform the M030 set-up (I currently get a M474 suspension) without lacking in comfort.

Nick, the pics are quite old, my engine looks stil better than on theese pics since I've refresh it

A hi-pressure washer is a great tool to clean an engine up...

TTM · Jan 11, 2008

ORIGINAL: marcoturbo
I like your ride height, it looks quite similar to mine

According to the picture the front of Steve's car seems higher than yours, so you may even have the possibility to gain front ground clearance when fitting the KW.

sawood12 · Jan 11, 2008

ORIGINAL: steve 944t

The knowledgeable chaps at RPM fitted my KW without re-indexing. I guess it will vary from car to car with how much adjustment is available. Like Scott's, my car is slightly lower at the front, but does not look as though the back is on stilts.

Well I think you'd be surprised at how many cars out there have probably had their TB's reindexed already, certainly all the KW people I spoke to about KW said the TB's would need re-indexing. My rear was lower than standard before I had the KW's fitted. I didn't know it but the car was at a slight nose up attitude. I trawled through my receipts and sure enough I found one from about 10yrs before my ownership where one side had dropped and the TB's had to be re-indexed. Apparently this has been a common issue with 944's and is well known by experienced specialists. Obviously they re-indexed the higher side to suit the lower side. In actual fact I don't think promax had to lower the rear much, however I was having M030 TB fitted as well so the TB's were being replaced anyway. I've never heard of a rear coil-over kit that didn't need the TB's reindexing - even with the 968 M030 setup, but then again I suppose most people who go for rear coilovers probably want a bit of lowering so maybe it's not a requirement.

If you want the height adjustability then you'd need to ditch the TB's which means stiffer springs than the standard coilovers. And in anycase it would be a waste of time. If you wanted to mess with ride height you'd have to have a re-alignment carried out after adjustment anyway so it's not as if you can lower track side for the trackday then raise again for the drive home. These are definately intended to be set once and forget.

Neil Haughey · Jan 11, 2008

ORIGINAL: appletonn

Marco, love the car, especially on those Fuchs wheels and how clean is that engine bay?!!![]

Have to agree. I love the look of the early offset turbo's on Fuchs. They look even better in the flesh. The Fuchs wheel is my favourite ever Porsche wheel and the D90 the one I hate the most.