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Learning to handle a 993 C2

K

kennyboy

New member
So I've had my C2 for a while now and want to start to explore it's handling a bit more...

I've had a couple of scares in the wet which I suppose is common for an inexperienced 911 driver - or atleast for one that hasn't been to a track day.

I'd like to know the best way for me to learn to 'catch' the rear when it goes and get advice on wether this is a good idea or not on public roads - empty ones of course.

Clearly I could go to a track day or is some professional tuition better? - if so where? or which track day company?

Or maybe my instinctive reaction to not lose rear grip ever is the best course of action? if so then I'll never keep up with those pesky subarus and mitsibushes etc?

Any advice gratefully received
 
Well on the way to LeMans through France this year when it was PiXXing down with rain and my Dad was drying no driving he asked what happens if the back end goes out....... I replied "at this speed PRAY".

Seriously I have the same question.

My 993 is brilliant in the handling department compared to the SC ... for obvious reasons ... but I would like to learn more in a 911 that someone else will have to sort if it goes the way of the Pear !!!
 
Whilst I don't have a phone number (just yet) I know Bernhard Aubrey (think that's how you spell his name) is / was used by Porsche Cars. I've also bumped into Bernhard at Ferrari Egham - he may have been with a private punter don't know..)

He's not a balls out thrash merchant but rather a gentle unassuming chap who happens to be blooming quick and more importantly SMOOTH ! He shows you how to know where your limit is....

Will ask around for you
 
ORIGINAL: WillD

Seriously I have the same question.

My 993 is brilliant in the handling department compared to the SC ... for obvious reasons ... but I would like to learn more in a 911 that someone else will have to sort if it goes the way of the Pear !!!
Click to expand...

ditto.... except it was a TT rather than an SC and the difference is now more oversteer instead of 'contorlled & low speed fun' understeer..
 
I have just spent a full day at Bruntingthorpe with DON PALMER.His course is designed for mastering the "On the Limit" characteristics of the 911 and I think its exactly what your looking for.By the end of the day you will be confident at controlled oversteer and will have fully explored the cars limits.Try:-donpalmer.co.uk


Regards
John
 
The best money I ever spent was on a personal session with a guy called Don Palmer (www.donpalmer.co.uk). One of the really useful things he taught me is that the car can steer itself faster than you can. So the basic principle is that if the rear end steps out, wait until you are pointing the way you want to go and just let go of the wheel, keeping the throttle even. My caveat is that I've never actually tried it in my 993, but it works beautifully in my elsie.

I wouldn't recommend trying this on the public road, or even on a track day, because you WILL spin before you get it right. You'd be better off going on an airfield day where spinning won't incur as much damage to your car, your reputation and the track day organiser's ulcer (and which is usually cheaper anyway) or as I say, give Don a ring. He charges no more than you'd get charged by Porsche or Lotus for a day's tuition, but you'd get a better instructor's undivided attention and more space in which to play.

Jens
 
Maurice,
You are absolutely correct with regards to tyre wear.!!!!
I started my day at Bruntingthorpe with a well used set of Dunlop track based tyres,since I had been forewarned that it would be tough on tyres.However by the finnish they were completely through to the steel reinforcement.
Fantastic way to explore the cars full handling in complete safety.


John
 
Kenny
Sorry for delay in replying - home PC went AWOL...
Found out Bernhards mobile number (07768 391552) but he really operates from the Reading / Staines area where he can access the Chobham Test facilities - see from your profile you are in Leeds, so maybe not such an ideal fit - however, I was told from one of my driving buddies that in response to a punters question about who is the best instructor Colin "Ask" Goodwin" (AutoCar) recommended Bernhard. So he's clearly well thought of for Road / Race training
 
I have done Don Palmer's "The wetter the better" course at MIRA... it is very very good, and you do learn how the 993 reacts in very (deliberate) slippery conditions...

I thoroughly recommend it...

his web site is www.driving development.co.uk

Have fun!!
 
I have to second the recommendation for Don Palmer - I have spent a lot of time with Don and he is ace.

But I would point out that his offering is focused on "limit handling", ie what happens and what to do when the car is at the limit (and beyond) of grip. His techniques are invaluable for dealing with these situations (and recognising how to avoid them / proactively manage them).

However, without wishing to state the obvious, it's far better on the public road to never get near the limits, and to that end I'd recommend John Lyon of the High Performance Course. He is one of the all time great instructors for safe, swift motoring, and I can tell you from personal experience, 911s are his favourite car! He will help you get the most out of your car on a road in total safety (using the police driving method).

Check out his website at www.high-performance-course.co.uk. If you "go all the way" with John and take (and pass) the 2 day High Performance Course you can join the High Performance Club where you will find many like minded motoring enthusiasts (and many 993 owners like myself!).

Kind regards

Steve
 
Steve,

Is this essentially an "Institute of Advanced Motorists" for drivers of performance cars, or is it someting else ?
 
I went on the John's GT course 11 years ago when my Dad had a Caterham and the insurance company would only let me drive the car on condition that my Father was always a passenger and I took John's course.

The skills gained on and off the road /track have saved me from injury and for that matter saved the Caterham once back then and my old 911 SC more recently....

I am very tempted to go back to John and take the full HPC instruction with my 993.

In fact I will do it ASAP.
 
Since Steve's clearly busy and hasn't responded I thought I'd respond to this question.

I'm a member of the IAM, RoADA (The RoSPA equivalent of the IAM) and the HPC.

The HPC uses the same principles of roadcraft as does the IAM, and for that matter all advanced road driving course, so you could see it as an extension of that.

However, a better analogy might be the transition in skill terms from flying a Cessna 172 light aircraft in fair weather conditions to piloting a Tornado in combat at night.

Seriously, however good a driver you are, John Lyon will be able to build on those skills to take you to the limit of your ability, in safety, on the road. He also runs race courses if that's your thing.

As Steve mentioned, passing the course allows you to join the High Performance Club, which is extremely worthwhile in its own right from a driver improvement and social perspective.

regards
Nick
 
some good info here.....

may have to give it a go.. hopefully i'll find the time before I go to the ring !
 
Cheers Nick.

I was wondering what the difference was given that Roadcraft is Roadcraft is Roadcraft !! I couldn't see there being "something new out there".

I was also confused given that the IAM / RoSPA etc are about defensive driving and hence work on anticipation / reading of the road - this means you shouldn't get into tight spots in the first place 'cos you see them coming. WillD's comments about the HPC saving him from injury more than once seems to imply the HPC teaches you how to get out of tight spots rather than teaching you how to avoid them.

Financial benefits (discounted insurance) of the IAM were great when I was 18 but aren't really there anymore, so I haven't spent the money picking up extra qualifications, just picking up additional skills. Do the HPC have a recommended cheap insurer if you spend the money on the "full monty" course ?
 
Shane

First, apologies for not responding to your first post sooner. Thanks Nick for picking that one up!

IAM and RoSPA are very worthwhile, but are generally not designed to teach safe, high performance driving. HPC takes IAM / RoSPA training a step further. As well as the 2 day course (which includes use of wet grip facilities and a track to further car control skills), you can go onto take so-called "higher awards" - Silver (night driving skills), Honours (track driving skills) and Gold (which is the civilian equivalent of a Police Class 1 standard - without the blues and twos!).

Like all the other advanced training courses, HPC is definitely about staying out of trouble, anticipating and controlling situations well in advance.

On the insurance front, the Club (which you can join if you pass the two day course), does have a bespoke insurance scheme. It is not necessarily cheaper, but it does offer comprehensive insurance for any HPC member (in other words, we can share cars on Club events fully insured at no cost - I've driven dozens of fantastic cars that I would never otherwise have had a chance to as a result) and full track day cover.

PM me if you'd like more details.

Kind regards

Steve
 
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