Lockton (Chubb) Insurance - Beware Perceptions of an Agreed Value!

[richbrowne]

Hi everyone []

Please beware all those who have procured an Agreed Value insurance from Lockton (implementing insurance company Chubb) without having provided a valuation.


I took the PCGB recommended route and spoke with Lockton; I was quoted £481. I detailed clearly that I wanted an Agreed value and they detailed they would provide this valuing the car at 70k and would NOT need a valuation. I remember someone saying or reading somewhere on the forum that Lockton do sometimes provide Agreed Values without the need for a valuation. I previously had the car insured with Admiral at an annual cost of £285 which was considerably cheaper than Lockton but was happy to go ahead with them as they took onboard the agreed value of £70k

I paid Lockton and was content until I received the email detailing the policy and Ts&Cs. The documentation they emailed stated that an Agreed value was a possible option following a valuation and that the car was insured for a value of £70k but it did not state that this was an Agreed Value! I have provided an extract from their insurance information supplied by email below with the relevant section highlighted and underlined. This was provided AFTER I had paid for the insurance:-

"PCGB Scheme
The PCGB scheme shall cover you Fully Comp in the UK and EU – you shall receive Breakdown and Recovery including home start in both, whilst travelling within the EU you have a single trip limit of 90 days at one time. If extra days are required we can refer to the underwriters Chubb to decide. Chubb also offer the request of an Agreed Value, we shall require an up to date valuation on the chosen companies letter headed paper – meaning should you suffer a total loss claim, you are guaranteed the full amount repaid. If you suffer a smaller loss and the damage is repairable, you are able to choose where you send your vehicle with our nominated repairer benefit. Throughout your annual policy, if you suffer any Legal Cost, you receive cover for the sums of up to £50,000. Please note – we do place mileage restrictions on the PCGB policy, these can be increased throughout the policy year with an AP. Should you need to amend any details to your polices throughout the year, we do not charge."


I emailed Lockton directly and also called and left a voicemail because the offices had closed for the day. Lockton did finally call the next day, after I again tried to get in touch with them. The representative I spoke with (same woman who sold me the insurance) was very specific in her language and was covering herself in the manner how she spoke. She was trying to tell me she had not deceived me but by saying statements that were true but not specific to the issue. In any event I said I would like to cancel the insurance and be provided a full refund. The following morning, after again emailing to remind them, I received notification that a refund was delivered last night. I have yet to receive this into my account (only a day after the refund statement so far though).

I have mentioned the above because I believe there may be many PCGB members who have insurance with Lockton under the perception that it is an Agreed Value but going by my experience it may not be. I believe this because during my 'cancellation' discussions with Lockton they detailed that Lockton Never provide Agreed Values without valuations!

I have provided this insight only to help PCGB members and in particular to warn any members who think they have an Agreed Value insurance with Lockton but may not if they have not provided a valuation for their Porsche.


I am now in the position where I still need Agreed Value insurance. I am looking to get a valuation through the PCGB to supply to an insurance company. Can anyone recommend an insurance company that will provide reasonably priced insurance for my 911 993 CS with an Agreed Value please?

 

[PORKA]

Try Classic Line Insurance I have mine with them on agreed valuation (and limited to 5000 miles/yr.) which is valid for 2 years then you have to update it, they can either value it for you (£20) or you can get your own valuation done on the forms they provide which is what I do.

 

[richbrowne]

Try Classic Line Insurance I have mine with them on agreed valuation (and limited to 5000 miles/yr.) which is valid for 2 years then you have to update it, they can either value it for you (£20) or you can get your own valuation done on the forms they provide which is what I do.

Will try CLI, thanks very much PORKA []

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Hi Richard,

If I'm reading this correctly, Locktons would offer an agreed value, but only on you providing a valuation?

If so, Classicline are exactly the same. From memory they allow you to self-cert up to £25K but above that you need a valuation.

Lockton's advert clearly states that the scheme includes an agreed valuation, with no exclusions or exceptions mentioned. I guess that's different from how you go about proving that value, and that's where they are asking for a valuation. I'm not sure how they could do anything else, as they obviously can't just accept every car on the owner's word as to it's value.

 

[AJOHND]

This isn't an answer to the question asked - but I am experiencing an "interesting" situation with my 993 C2 coupe - which I had valued in February via PCGB. I used this to obtain 'full replacement value' cover with Chubb, via Locktons. The premium effectively doubled over my previous 'market value' cover which I had with Marsh Insurance/Aviva - but this in itself isn't the issue. The problem, it seems to me, is that when Porsche values (specifically 993 in my case, although I'm sure the same will apply to pretty much all of the older models) are continually increasing, the agreed 'full replacement value' will very quickly be less than 'market value' - in which case the cheaper premium with Marsh/Aviva provides the better cover!

The answer of course, is to have one's car revalued on a very regular basis - which will have the effect of increasing the premium - but at least the cover will keep up to a reasonable extent with what is considered current value. This will also require fees to be paid to the organisation providing the valuation service.

As an associated aside, when I had my car valued by PCGB, I was quite happy with the then quoted value as it was higher than what I had paid for the car. Now, however, I find that it is fairly substantially below what the market seems to think good C2's are worth. I will get the car revalued (possibly not via PCGB) which should secure its 'full replacement value' figure for a while.

Has anyone experienced similar low 993 valuations from PCGB, is my interpretation of the 'market value' being better (in some circumstances , ie similar to mine) correct, and finally does anyone know of any enlightened insurance organisation which takes a forward view as to values, having first established an accurate valuation?

Unless I'm completely wrong in all of this - in which case, do please put me right - I have a feeling that there will be many members out there who really are substantially under insured, and are paying hefty premiums for the privilidge.

John Dymond

 

[pauljmcnulty]

John, this is something that's often been raised when values are going up fast. You have little choice but to get regular increases, and bear the costs, or be under-insured and possibly lose out in the event of a total loss.

What's always raised a smile with me is that there's NEVER been a forum thread discussing dropping one's agreed value month-by-month when the market is falling. [&:]

From the feedback I get the Club valuations have always tended to be on the high side. I'd go back and ask for it to be revised if it's too low, but bear in mind that every owner thinks their car is the best out there, just as 80% of drivers believe they are above average!

One thing to bear in mind is that any insurer can challenge a valuation if they feel it's unreasonable. Talking to the owner of a large broker his attitude was to let the odd one through as a loss, as the publicity around refusing to pay out would be too negative, but valuations need to be linked to prices actually achieved in the sale market. That's different from the price of cars advertised, of course.

 

[richbrowne]

Hi Richard,

If I'm reading this correctly, Locktons would offer an agreed value, but only on you providing a valuation?

If so, Classicline are exactly the same. From memory they allow you to self-cert up to £25K but above that you need a valuation.

Lockton's advert clearly states that the scheme includes an agreed valuation, with no exclusions or exceptions mentioned. I guess that's different from how you go about proving that value, and that's where they are asking for a valuation. I'm not sure how they could do anything else, as they obviously can't just accept every car on the owner's word as to it's value.

Hi Paul,
The issue of whether or not they require a valuation wasn't the point I was trying to get across. [&:]

The issue I had with Lockton was that I detailed that I wanted an Agreed Value insurance and was mis-sold insurance without an agreed value; irrespective of what they can provide with a valuation, I was led to believe my car was insured for an Agreed Value of £70k. I only picked up on this due to being pedantic about reading through all their insurance documentation that was subsequently provided. I had heard that others had apparently procured Agreed Value insurance from Lockton, without the need for a valuation therefore my post was to raise concern just in case others had purchased insurance believing it to be an Agreed Value, without providing a valuation, and being in the same predicament as myself.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Hi Richard,

I wonder if there is any insurer that will be any different? Certainly not in my experience.

Limited mileage, you have to declare the mileage. No-claims, you have to prove your no claims. Agreed value, you have to supply the valuation. It might just be wording, but I'm pretty sure that there'll be no difference with other brokers.

 

[jdpef356]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Seems more like a communication problem that standard practice.

When I want an agreed value on a vehcile I know when calling I will have to supply at least six photos, proably a valuation on headed paper and documentary evidence of any restoration. Normally such paperwork has to be repeated every couple of years when renewing.

Now of course you can get insurance cover the minute you ring up and ask for an agreed valuation. However, this will only be a market value and not the agreed valuation. This will not kick in until such time as they received the necessary documentation ie photos headed paper valuation etc etc. The insurer will then inform you they have accepted the valuation (or not) and that as far as I am aware has never been any different with whoever I have been dealing with.

If you don't send in the requested documentation I guess you have not kept the requirements of the contract and your car may only be insured at its market Value.

 

[richbrowne]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Seems more like a communication problem that standard practice.

When I want an agreed value on a vehcile I know when calling I will have to supply at least six photos, proably a valuation on headed paper and documentary evidence of any restoration. Normally such paperwork has to be repeated every couple of years when renewing.

Now of course you can get insurance cover the minute you ring up and ask for an agreed valuation. However, this will only be a market value and not the agreed valuation. This will not kick in until such time as they received the necessary documentation ie photos headed paper valuation etc etc. The insurer will then inform you they have accepted the valuation (or not) and that as far as I am aware has never been any different with whoever I have been dealing with.

If you don't send in the requested documentation I guess you have not kept the requirements of the contract and your car may only be insured at its market Value.

Hi John
Yes you're correct it was a communication issue. I requested Agreed Value insurance and they led me to believe that is what was put in place and I was told that a valuation was not required. i was aware that a valuation should normally be required with most insurers but this is not what was detailed by Lockton. My main concern was whether other PCGB members had fallen into the same trap without realising it. []

 

[TEPPY]

I just insured mine through Darren at AIB, agreed valuation at £35k on the policy for 1995 C4 with £75k on clock. I got the valuation done by RGA in Vauxhall for £60.

I applied for a valuation through PCGB over 3 months ago, its a complete joke I have still not had a response, PCGB - don't offer the service for members if it can't be delivered.

My insurance came in a £489, I am 32, my wife is on the policy (who has never driven the car), 3000 miles, business class 1 use. most of the other insurers were more expensive, and either wouldn't insure the wife or business use. Has to be garaged overnight when the car is at home, I live on outskirts of London/Surrey.

 

[rob.kellock]

I have recently switched my insurance to the PCGB policy with Lockton.

They could not have been more helpful and were completely transparent about the opportunity to agree a value - if I wanted to agree a value then I had to supply a valuation.

An insurance policy is simply a contract between the policyholder and the insurer - terms vary as do prices. For a classic car in a fast rising market, I suspect that a market value policy is a far better option. For a modern car like mine, the opportunity of an agreed value was a surprising bonus.

Don't forget, agreeing a value only has any merit at the point of submitting a claim to your insurers, it is of little or no value if you are caused loss by a third party.

 

[richbrowne]

I have recently switched my insurance to the PCGB policy with Lockton.

They could not have been more helpful and were completely transparent about the opportunity to agree a value - if I wanted to agree a value then I had to supply a valuation.

An insurance policy is simply a contract between the policyholder and the insurer - terms vary as do prices. For a classic car in a fast rising market, I suspect that a market value policy is a far better option. For a modern car like mine, the opportunity of an agreed value was a surprising bonus.

Don't forget, agreeing a value only has any merit at the point of submitting a claim to your insurers, it is of little or no value if you are caused loss by a third party.

Hi Rob
Glad you never had any issues, hopefully this was a limited rare experience. Of course, a cynic may contemplate the perception that your position at PCGB may have had something to do with your experience with the incumbent supplier. []

 

[richbrowne]

Update:-
I took PORKA's advise and insured through Classic Line Insurance. I was treated very well and was clearly instructed on their process for Agreed Value cover.
I have submitted a formal request to the PCGB for a valuation which I will then provide to CLI.

Thank you all for your comments and help. []

 

[TEPPY]

Update:-
I took PORKA's advise and insured through Classic Line Insurance. I was treated very well and was clearly instructed on their process for Agreed Value cover.
I have submitted a formal request to the PCGB for a valuation which I will then provide to CLI.

Thank you all for your comments and help. []

good luck, I've been waiting for 3 months for my valuation to come back..!

 

[rob.kellock]

Hi Rob
Glad you never had any issues, hopefully this was a limited rare experience. Of course, a cynic may contemplate the perception that your position at PCGB may have had something to do with your experience with the incumbent supplier. []

I sincerely hope not - I didn't exactly ring them up and say "don't you know who I am?" []

Funnily enough, having sent them a valuation that was for a higher sum than I had originally told them the car was worth, new policy documentation was turned around by return of post last week too which did impress me.

 

[richbrowne]

Update:-
received my valuation back from Porsche, forwarded this on to Classic Line with docs and images used for valuation and now have an Agreed Value with CL.

Must admit the whole process was less hassle than I expected.

 

[Chrishazle]

This was also my experience with CL when I insured my 968 cab with them - sent them the PCGB valuation (which was somewhat more than I paid for the car), they asked for photos - which I emailed to them - and the valuation was immediately accepted. However, it's only valid for 2 years, so I now need to request an updated valuation from PCGB, which I have yet to do.