Looking for a 964 C4 - please advice

[charles.y]

Hi all,

I am a regular at the 944 forum but new to ths 964 and I am seeking info on the 964 C4 model. Please help ...

I currently own a 944 S2 cabriolet (done 110k miles and have spent more than £3k in the last 18 months incl. 2x rear brake calipers, all front and rear suspension struts, Promax chip, K&N filter, replaced both rusted left and right sills, 4x new Bridgestone SO3 tyres, new high performance vaccum leads, spark plugs and distributor, new starter motor, 4x brake pipes, mid-pipe siliencer replacement with straight-thru pipe, renovated leather seats, new JVC DAB MP3 player, replaced dash lights with brighter LEDs, replaced key light with brighter LED etc) ...

and am thinking to swap it for a 964 C4 (probably the targa model for its semi-opentop) and wonder if there are pros/cons (and known problems) and what I should avoid when looking for one. I expect to pay upto £15k - is this achievable? Is the C4 the model to have?

Regards
Charles

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

Charles,

Unfortunately you have just missed an absolute peach of a 964 Targa although Ken's car was a C2 rather than a C4. The discussion of whether a C2 is better than a C4 is an enduring one - more like a never ending story - and it depends very much on your needs and expectations. Both are, nevertheless, exceptional cars (there, that's got me out a hole!!)

You are likely to find that Targas, in general, are less desireable than Coupes although condition will generally determine price more than body style. 964s are not without their "foibles", the later ones less so than the early ones. The early cars (except the very early 1989 coupes) suffered from a less than relaible dual mass flywheel but I'm sure you'll find that the vast majority of those will now have been updated to the later LUK variety.

Most suffer some form of oil leakage - rare that you will find a completely dry one, although rumour has it that they DO exist. All should now have a distributor vent system fitted to stop the secondary distributor drive belt disintegrating although it amazes me that cars still come on the market without one.

I'd strongly recommend that you join the 964 Yahoo Group (http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/porsche964/) where there is a lot of worldwide 964 knowledge available as well as a buyers guide and links to known 964 retailers in the Files section. Just don't start a C2 v C4 discussion - we've been there a thousand times before!!!

It's always recommended that you get someone familiar with 964s specifically to inspect a car you are interested in so you can avoid the major pitfalls - again some links on the Yahoo Group to people who can do that for you.

Good luck in your search and let us know how you get on.

Regards


Dave

 

[charles.y]

Dave,

Thanks for the useful info. I have already set my eyes on the C4 so there is no debate/comparison needed here. I just need to know if there are major problems with the C4 and particularly with the targa. I have heard that some creature comforts such as the air-con always failed.

Any advices on the C4 will be useful.

Regards
Charles

 

[Fen]

Charles - you are welcome to have as much of a look / drive etc. of mine tonight at the Ace as you want. It isn't at its best as it has developed a slow puncture in the (almost new) offside rear [] and the passenger mirror is off just now (the two parts came apart - refitting on Friday), but it's minor stuff and it will be back to 100% next week.

What is in it for me is that I am about 80% sure I'll be putting it up for sale next month despite having got it mostly the way I wanted it (I trump your £3k in 180 months with £4,500 or so in 5 months), the reason being I plan to move to New Zealand and I don't think it makes financial sense to take it with me as opposed to buying another one when I get there. You're right on the money for what I'd want for it, too. It isn't a Targa, but then they are [:'(] compared to the coupe anyway...

 

[charles.y]

Fen,

A slow puncture - so I maybe able to catch you up then []

Regards
Charles

 

[Fen]

ORIGINAL: charles.y

Dave,

Thanks for the useful info. I have already set my eyes on the C4 so there is no debate/comparison needed here. I just need to know if there are major problems with the C4 and particularly with the targa. I have heard that some creature comforts such as the air-con always failed.

Any advices on the C4 will be useful.

Regards
Charles

They don't have air-con, unless you get LHD, a RHD import from a warm climate market or a very rare one with the option specified.

Targa-specific problems, aside the aesthetic one of completely losing the lovely 911 roof line relate to noise and leakage from the roof and flex in the chassis. Before any Targa owner takes offence I have had a 911 Targa before and it was bl00dy awful so my opinion is founded in experience.

In terms of C4 they are a bit heavier and tend to understeer when pushed. You can dial that out with suspension tweaks to a large degree and on my list of things to do is fit a MY90 C2 rear ARB as that apparently brings the rear into play a bit more (there might be one on my car before I sell it in fact). There is no bad news with the 4wd system as it's generally extremely reliable, though I guess if you're really unlucky it could be a nightmare of expense.

 

[Fen]

ORIGINAL: charles.y

Fen,

A slow puncture - so I maybe able to catch you up then []

Regards
Charles

Probably - especially if I'm standing beside the thing waiting for my compressor to do its stuff like I had to do yesterday after work and today before work []

 

[Steve Brookes]

As one who has just gone through this process not much more than 5 minutes ago and am now a proud 964 owner, I can only offer minimal advice. But if I were to offer one piece of advice, it would be to buy one from a fellow enthusiast if you can. That way you'll get an honest opinion of where the car is up to and its likely that they've also sourced it previously from another enthusiast or a recognised 964 specialist. With all this in mind it sounds like Fen might be your man[].

With your budget of £15K there will be a fair few to go at, mine was less so I had to look quite hard to sort the wheat from the chaff. While C2 or C4 was not particularly important to me (even though I'm very pleased it turned out to be a C2[]), it had to be a coupe. Since my budget was lower, it had to be a high miler so when looking at cars the main things I looked for in addition to the upgrades mentioned by Dave were (in no particular order):

Little or no rust
Nothing more than minor oil leaks
The car had already received a top-end rebuild
Lots of paper history

Good luck. I'm sure you won't regret it.

 

[Alexander_Drobik]

As ever the car history is a good clue to condition - as is the last owner. A good history file is a great start and it car loks right then get an expert to look over it. A C4 is more complex that a C2 - the AWD electronics and pump etc need a good check - any problems here is going to cost. On aircon - it is a myth that it does not work but unless the system is serviced ever few years - yep they won't work. Look out also for rust bubbles in the lower outside part of the windscreen, the rear pillars if a sliding roof if fitted (although if you go for a targa that is not an issue!) , and damage to the front end. Good luck!

 

[Rotorhead]

Out of interest, why not go for a C2? - Lighter, less complex drive system, bigger boot and, arguably, nicer handling.

And a lovely looking C2 Coupe has just appeared in the For Sale section

 

[skendrick]

Hi Charles,

I have just done the same as your about to do, I have a 944 Turbo at the moment and will be picking up the 964 C4 coupe on Saturday.

I asked a similar question a couple of months ago and came to the conclusion that it's what you want and not what is the best one to have (as they are all good). If you want the targa over a coupe or cab then thats the one you should go for.

Happy hunting.

 

[sawood12]

Are there many issues with the ABS system? I seem to recall reading posts about problems with ABS and clutches as the hydraulic systems are shared so troubleshooting is difficult and problems with one can affect the other. Is there anything to look out for in that department?

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

Scott,

Generally the system is pretty reliable. It's not so much the ABS specifically but the traction control system (called "PDAS") which has hydraulically operated clutches for the rear and centre diffs. The system is sensitive to hydraulic fluid level and battery voltage but is rarely cause for concern.

The system CAN be affected by electronic gremlins which are rarely directly connected to the ABS/PDAS system but I have first hand experience of leaky distributor caps causing mayhem!!

There have been instances of the pressure limit switch on the pressure "bomb" failing which invariably will give rise to the pressure pump overheating and potentially melting the pipework and leaking hydraulic fluid into the luggage compartment. If the pressure pump runs for significantly more than 1 minute on start up it's worth looking for potential problems. If the pump runs for approaching 2 minutes you should take immediate action since it is not designed to run for that long and will likely burn out. They are VERY expensive to replace.

The high pressure system is the same as used in the RS and the Turbos although the PDAS system is unique to the C4.

Regards

Dave