Looking for a 996 (maybe C4S) - HELP

[Spy]

Hi all,

I am looking for my first 911 and have opted for a 996 Coupe. My budget is limited but looking at teh classifieds in AT and PH, I think I can get a decent car.

I would like to spend about £18k-22k but may stretch to £24k for a C4S

I would like a facelift car with teh 3.6 engine.

I am obsessive about getting a welll looked after car and paranoid about teh engione blow-up issues. I will definitely get any car PPI'd - whether private or a dealer because of my paranoia.

If anyone knows of a cherished 996 up for sale with a comprehensive service history that includes old receipts and MOTs, please let me know - not PH links please as I trawl that every day []

Also, some advice would be useful, I have been put off by extremely low mileage examples (eg 30k miles on a 8 year old car) as I worry that they have been sat unsed for much of their life which I understand is not good for a 911 - is this true and should I be wary of these ones ?

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Edit by Richard: Merged from earlier post:

Hi guys,

New member here, looking to get into Porsche ownership, although I did own a 924 about 18 years ago !

I am looking to buy a 996 but haqving trouble decinding whether to go for :
- Manual
- Tiptronic

What are teh pros and cons of each eg reliability, maintenance cost etc ?

Also, with a manual, how often and how much does it cost to change the clutch ?

Thanks

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

Spyros!

The old Tip vs Manual debate will go on forever. [] It all depends how you are going to use the car. Daily drive across town, or weekend toy? All three of my Porsches have been Tip, but before then I had never owned an automatic. I really like the system, and it suits my needs perfectly. It makes the commute easy and relaxing, and is a lot of fun on the open road. Point-to-point there is nothing in it, but the manual is more involving if that's what you want. You really need to try them both before you decide. I drive mine in manual mode all the time btw. The other advantage with a tiptronic is that it cannot be over-revved. Fuel consumption is higher though - probably 2-3mpg.

A clutch change will cost the thick end of £600 at an indy.

If you want a reasonable mileage (40-50k) pampered 3.6 you will be looking at £22k rather than £18k. You might get an early C4S for £24k, so I think your budget is realistic for a private sale. Buy on condition and history. Look for a car that has had money spent on it recently, and has obviously been cherished. Don't buy cheap, as it will probably end up costing you money to get it up to scratch. Get a PPI done - the cost will be worth it. Either it will put your mind at ease, or if there are non-deal-breaking faults you can use it as a negotiating tool.

 

[Spy]

Thanks for the sound advice Richard.

I will defintely get any car PPI'd (whether from a dealer or private) for peace of mind.

It seems thet the C4S models for £24k are in the region of 80k miles - is this OK reliability wise or should I go for a C2/C4 with alower mileage ?

I have been driving autos for a while now and my M3 was SMG so I like teh idea of a manual for a change and to make it more special but not sure if it will be the right long-term choice !

Thanks,
Spy

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

People tend to go for the C4S purely for the looks - hence it is a bit more desirable and expensive. You don't say if the car is to be a daily driver and hence accumulating miles, or a weekend toy which might do 2-3000 per year. If it is a daily driver, I would try and find something around 45-50,000, bearing in mind that with normal mileage when you come to sell it in 2-3 years time, it won't take it too close to the psychological threshold of 100,000. If I was buying another 996 Carrera on your budget it would be a C2, as it is slightly nimbler and quicker (albeit we are talking very small margins here) than the C4S, due to being lighter. I too wouldn't go for an ultra-low mileage car

 

[Spy]

I would be looking use the car as a daily driver in the summer months and more for dry weekends in the winter months - I would estimate about 8k miles a year (maybe less).

There seem to a few C4S cars in the £24k bracket but have 70k+ miles

Given this, would teh advice be to go for a lower mileage C2 ?

 

[philippe]

Welcome Spy

I would tend to go for a higher miller well serviced looked after car than a low miller not so well look after car. However if i was in your shoes i would spend your top money of 24K and buy a nice C2-4 coupe with lower miles and a good history as there are some good cars about and maybe less C4S for the money and requirments you have, you see a lot of good cars that look cheap until you go and see them and they are a bit ruff round the edges.

I have a manual car which is very rewarding to drive, but if i had to sit in traffic on a regular basis, or lived in a city i would go for a Tip.

Take your time and the right car will turn up.

Looking for one is part of the fun, and worth it in the end.

Phil

 

[Spy]

Thanks for the comments Phil.

The logic is sound but I love the look of the C4S and I also think it will hold its value better in the long term.

Saying that, at 24K they seem to have 70k+ miles. Need to spend about £26k to get a 50k mile example.

What ar the engines like on these. I know some have issues but in general ?
I note that turbo engine seem to go for 200k+, how do these compare ?

 

[philippe]

[blockquote]
I agree the C4S does look good and it may hold out more, but i think you will have to pay more like 26K+ unless you go for a high miller but as i mentioned in my previous post, as long as they are well serviced that would not be a problem.

Engine wise on these cars again there should be no problem with failure, no more than an M3 etc. Unless it has had a very hard life, some may go against me on this subject.

Turbos - i am sure Richard is the man to answer your questions on this subject as he has one.

Cheers Phil[/blockquote]

 

[C4S al]

Hi,

Off topic a bit as interested in the current values of the C4S for obvious reasons! The 996 C4S has actually increased in value compared to 14-18 months ago IMHO.

Also spec is another variable to consider. Sports exhaust, bi-xenon, sport seats are a must. The PCM2 is not a deal breaker as far better after market products out there however some say it makes the cabin more tech based and modern. A dash of carbon fibre will do that and note the full carbon fibre package is several thousand. Sport techno alloys again an expensive option all add to the residuals.

Had my C4S for 4 years now with 46,000 on the clock, amazing car and perfect for my needs. Wife, 16 year old son and 4 year old daughter all travel in comfort and with luggage.

Enjoy your search, do not rush it I took 12 months and saw and drove many before I parted with my hard earned.

Cheers Alan.

 

[Spy]

Thanks guys. My budget has now crept up to 30k as I now want a C4S with 50k or under and have developed a taste for Xenon lights, Rear Park Assist and switchable PSE !

 

[kasspa]

Hi Spy,

Seeing the posts re your enquiry,

Purchased my 1st 911 in Dec '09..... 2004 996 C4S Black with Black leather & full electric memory heated seats.... 51k
Expect to pay your 'top end' price as they do appear to be on the up!

I thought that given the 'credit crunch' it would be a buyers market but not so!

Saw a '02 similar spec in October that had 70k, with 7 previous owners & it went for screen price of £25k.

Not had much opportunity to drive it much given the weather but delighted with it, roll on Spring....

Good Luck with the search,

Paul

 

[Spy]

Thans Kasspa, the prices aren't too bad.

There is a 2002 50k miler with leather, PCM, sports exhaust etc for £23.5k and some 70k milers with good spec for £24k.

They then jump up to £28k-£30k for 2003 with lower miles

 

[James_W]

Like Kasspa I too have just purchased a C4S with Tip & PSE. I am so impressed with pretty much everything (with the exception of some of the switchgear - heater control buttons). The performance in any condition is amazing and feel that it is definately one of the best looking 911s.

I paid towards the top end of your revised budget but managed to negotiate the following work within the agrees price:

4 new N rated Continentals
front discs with pads all around
48k service (plugs, belts, oil, brake fluid)
4wd geo alignment
professional leather refurb

whilst you may not be able to reduce the price considerably you should find the car you want and concentrate your negotiation on the service items and or warranty

 

[CLIFFWILKINS]

C4 S every time.
just make sure its got a full service history and worth getting it inspected.

 

[Spy]

ORIGINAL: James_W

Like Kasspa I too have just purchased a C4S with Tip & PSE. I am so impressed with pretty much everything (with the exception of some of the switchgear - heater control buttons). The performance in any condition is amazing and feel that it is definately one of the best looking 911s.

I paid towards the top end of your revised budget but managed to negotiate the following work within the agrees price:

4 new N rated Continentals
front discs with pads all around
48k service (plugs, belts, oil, brake fluid)
4wd geo alignment
professional leather refurb

whilst you may not be able to reduce the price considerably you should find the car you want and concentrate your negotiation on the service items and or warranty

Thanks James.

Where did you get yours from, an OPC, independent Porsche specialist or just a general independent sales outfit ?

 

[James_W]

An independant.

 

[neilm]

Sorry if I'm highjacking this thread, but I'm in a similar position!

Currently have a late 2005 Boxster 2.7 which has been great and I've owned it from new. However the recent extreme weather in East Anglia has seen me revert to the wife's 4*4 for a few days. Next year that won't be an option as we will be working in different places so I need to consider a 'year round' car. All reports of C4's seem to suggest they can handle most conditions.

So, the question is- are there many real differences between the C4 and C4S on a day to day basis? I know the cosmetic ones, but I travel about 45 miles per day and would like to know whether there are compelling reasons to go for one or the other?

Budget is around £28k- it seems I can get a mid 2004 C4 or mid 2003 C4S for that money with around 50k on the clock from an independent.

All pointers welcome! Thanks

 

[Dylan1]

All reports of C4's seem to suggest they can handle most conditions.


neil-just a note of caution-these are NOT 4by4 vehicles!!
i was told by an expert on these cars that in icy conditions they are just very expensive snowboards!!because of the very wide low tyres-the 4wd doesnt make up for this-if you really need a car for these conditions i would advise against thinking a c4 or c4s as being the ideal answer.I know of guys here who do use them throughout the snow etc,but most keep them firmly in the garage(like me)and use a proper 4wd or front drive in such conditions

 

[ashley]

Agree with what's been said but I'd like to think the bad weather experienced recently was a bit of a one off, worst winter for 30+ years, we shall see. On that basis I don't think we'll all be rushing out buying 4X4's just in case the snow comes.

The C4S is a very practical car and in my opinion much better than the Front wheel drive A5 I've recently got as a company car or my wifes BMW335 which were both absolutely hopeless when the white stuff was on the ground.

great write up on the C4S, buying guide in this months 911 and Porsche World.

 

[unclewinks]

Great car,had three boxters previous I will never go back,as for four wheel drive,not a chance in the snow
these cars are only 95%rear 5% front at slow speeds this will increase to a max 70%rear 30% front at 155mph+
not so four wheel drive,997 gen 2 c4s is the answer,my wife and I had a very bad experience in the snow,never again
Paul