lowering and stiffer springs

[Globe_911]

I'm after some lower and stiffer springs for my 89 944 S2, but would want to lower the car as much as possible really, I've found a couple of kits online that lower it 30mm but was hoping for more around 50/60mm or would this mean having to have the dampers changed as well?
cheers

 

[John Sims]

I think you will find -30mm is more than enough unless you only use the car on the track.

Even at -30mm you need to consider extended shaft ball joints or Charlie Bars as the reduced ride hight alters your suspension geometry resulting in strange camber results under dive and roll.

I have -30mm and anything greater would render the car almost undriveable on UK roads.

 

[Peter Empson]

I completely agree with John, please be very careful with lowering too much unless you attend to the wishbones first.

My car was lowered, but not excessively so and for whatever reason (probably a combination of age, the lowering and much more severe braking ability than it was designed for) I had a failure on track which could have been a lot nastier than it was (it's well documented on this forum so I wont go over it again).

I haven't the foggiest how low my car is now (possibly a bit lower than John's?), but it has the Rennbay upgrade (thanks to John) and I feel confident in the car once more. So before doing any lowering I strongly recommend looking at this with the highest priority.

The Lux's front bumper isn't as low as the later cars (and I have no splitter either) so I don't have problems with day to day use, but realistically I wouldn't want to go a great deal lower on the road without risking damage.

Best regards,
Peter

 

[sawood12]

If you are lowering the car then you may as well upgrade your rear Torsion Bars. They are relatively cheap and to lower the car you'll have to re-index the TB's which effectively means doing everything you would to remove them.

Thirded about the comments on the Rennbay geometry correcting kit - although I think the longer ball joint spindle of the kit looks too thin and I wish I hadn't seen it!! I wish i'd gone with the 19mm dia upgrade for racing purposes.

 

[Big Dave]

With regards to upgrading the Torsion bars,, Why not stick a pair of 968 ones in as they are thicker than the S2/Turbo ones...Thats just what im about to do to mine.. [This winter anyway]....

 

[Neil Haughey]

or get 27mm bars in mail order from one of the suppliers in the states. With the exchange rate like it is now this has to be the best time for years for getting Porsche parts state side. 27mm ~ 225Lb/inch a nice increase on stock rates.

 

[chrisg]

Whatever you do, if you want lowered/ uprated springs, don't buy off the shelf ones ! They're very expensive and will be a compromise for what you want. Save yourself ~ £50 and go to Coilsprings in Sheffield, speak to Neil - 01142 758573 - He's still got the pattern/ dimensions on his computer for the S2 lowered/ stiffened springs I ordered ~ 6yrs ago.

I know this because I bought another pair from him for the Turbo ~ 2yrs ago and he remembered me.

If you need any help or advice, ring me or mail off line:

chrisgrahame@yahoo.co.uk 07793 369509

 

[sawood12]

Well when I had my KW installed I upgraded to M030 rear TB's (25mm ones not the 968 30mm ones. I think stock are 23.5mm dia) and they were a little over £225 delivered from the OPC (Exeter). If you are not planning on installing rear coil-overs with your TB's then maybe the 30mm 968 M030 ones might be better. Can't imagine there would be much price difference.

 

[Globe_911]

well the car will only be used on the track for now so doesn't matter about road use. with re: to the rennbay upgrade, whats involved in it? and where do I get the parts to do it, doen a search on google and can't find anything??

and for those interested in the cars progress, the drivers side seat is in and adjustable, waitign for runners for passenger side, waiting on a rear roll hoop with a cross diagonal which we've opted for rather than the full cage, got a pair of sabelt 4 point harnesses which should be here this week and it's had the braided lines and all new fluid in so it's getting there []

 

[Peter Empson]

Hi Thomas,
Great to hear the car is progressing well.
Here's a link to Rennbay. The one we went for is shown here http://www.rennbay.com/track-kit-with-19mm-gck-long-pins-p-97.html
and from what you've said this is the one you should really consider.

My garage fitted it for me so I don't know how difficult it was (there are instructions in the link above), but I don't recall it costing a huge amount of labour - and it was certainly an awful lot less than the damage caused by the pins failure in the first place []

Best regards,
Peter

 

[TTM]

Quick reminder on torsion bar diameters on later cars :
turbo 220 : 23.5 mm
turbo 250 / S2 with M030 / 968 : 25.5 mm
S2 without M030 : 24 mm

 

[Globe_911]

cheers for the link, I'll look into costs of fitting etc. is this only necessary if lowering more than 30mm?? or is it best to do it if the cars being used on the track?

 

[John Sims]

IMHO it is necessary if lowering the car 30mm to avoid strange geometry changes.

If the car is being used on the track and is, lower or running track tyres or running big brakes or has soggy suspension, it may push the standard ball joint beyond its operating rage during extreme dive or compression. .'. worth doing.

 

[sawood12]

I'd also say it's worth doing if your lowering the car less than 30mm - say much more than 12-15mm? But if yours is going to be prodominantly a track car then i'd lower it as much as you can. Mine is lowered approx 30mm at the front and is perfectly road-usable and feels so much more planted.

I got Hartech to install my geometry correcting kit and it cost me £150.

Even though the 19mm spindle one will look and feel alot safer the experiance of many users of the standard 17mm spindle kit seem perfectly happy and i've not heard of any failures - even with guys who track and race on the 17mm kits - you also have to drill out the hole in the hub to accept the 19mm spindle, but that is no big deal. Also go for the phospher Bronze bush (or whatever material it is), the poly bush is no good.

 

[Diver944]

Re-read this post and only just realised what Neil posted about larger diameter torsion bars being available [&:]

Checked on Paragon Products in the States and he's absolutley right - 25,26,27,28,29 and 30mm solid bars are available for our cars, as well as a hollow (and lighter) 30mm version. A very basic (and cheap) way of increasing the rear spring rate as opposed to fitting coilover shocks

http://www.paragon-products.com/product_p/saw_944tb.htm

It's just a shame you still need all that labour to actually remove and fit them []

 

[sawood12]

My final bill for the KW installation was roughly 50/50 between the cost of the kit and the cost of the install.

 

[Neil Haughey]

Paul, paragon are the guys I got mine from a few years back. Since I realised that the rear suspension would have to be dropped anyways it made perfect sense to pop in a pair of 27mm torsion bars. Luckilly I had the clutch, fuel lines and brake lines all done at the same time, I say luckilly because that little lot was part of a 5K garage bill.