M474
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TTM
Well-known member
1. No, they are much cheaper. They do not feature the ride height adjustment of the M030 though.
2. Depends on what springs you plan to use.
If using stock '91 turbo springs (grey marking) then you will need M474 struts designed for the S2 (smaller diameter spring). It wouldn't be a good idea as the ride height at the front will remain more or less stock (~ too high). You can fit 968 CS springs that will be shorter or other stiffer aftermarket springs that are of the same diameter and will work better with the stiffer-valved Konis.
3. Don't bother with Konis at all, they're rubbish compared to eg similarly-priced Bilstein B6. Those come as cartridges for the front though and they won't fit your '91 struts unless you have the struts modified or find early 944 struts with threaded tops required to receive Bilstein cartridges.
At best save up for a set of KW. Anything between the original Sachs and those is a plain a waste of time, money and hassle. IMHO.
2. Depends on what springs you plan to use.
If using stock '91 turbo springs (grey marking) then you will need M474 struts designed for the S2 (smaller diameter spring). It wouldn't be a good idea as the ride height at the front will remain more or less stock (~ too high). You can fit 968 CS springs that will be shorter or other stiffer aftermarket springs that are of the same diameter and will work better with the stiffer-valved Konis.
3. Don't bother with Konis at all, they're rubbish compared to eg similarly-priced Bilstein B6. Those come as cartridges for the front though and they won't fit your '91 struts unless you have the struts modified or find early 944 struts with threaded tops required to receive Bilstein cartridges.
At best save up for a set of KW. Anything between the original Sachs and those is a plain a waste of time, money and hassle. IMHO.
While I agree in principle that more used units are not the best solution I don't agree on the dangerous suggestion. I have heard the same said about part-worn tyres and I think it's nonsense there too.
When you buy a used car (which let's face it all of us have done as I don't believe a single poster on here has had their 944 from new) do you immediately change the tyres and suspension for brand new? If not then you are using used parts that you don't really know the history of in a safety related area. You're actually safer to buy used components off the car where you can get a better visual inspection before you fit them than you can of used parts already on the car.
That said used suspension is probably past its best, but then again if I were to sell on mt KW (which I'm not) then I would expect decent money for it and certainly not for it to be considered dangerous.
As far as the OP is concerned I don't know that I'd buy used M474 of unknown history purely because it could be totally shagged in which case it's no benefit at all and it can't easily be rebuilt.
When you buy a used car (which let's face it all of us have done as I don't believe a single poster on here has had their 944 from new) do you immediately change the tyres and suspension for brand new? If not then you are using used parts that you don't really know the history of in a safety related area. You're actually safer to buy used components off the car where you can get a better visual inspection before you fit them than you can of used parts already on the car.
That said used suspension is probably past its best, but then again if I were to sell on mt KW (which I'm not) then I would expect decent money for it and certainly not for it to be considered dangerous.
As far as the OP is concerned I don't know that I'd buy used M474 of unknown history purely because it could be totally shagged in which case it's no benefit at all and it can't easily be rebuilt.
Hilux
New member
Good point Fen however the car is bought on the assumption that all the kit on it is `fit for purpose` and will have an MOT/history etc and have been driven and tested. I appreciate that all of the above doesnt mean it is all good, working and safe however a part that is untried, untested and of unknown origin pushes the boundaries further (in my personal opinion) eg: why is it for sale?
You and I know that people are not all honest and a knackered part that is changed will not appear to work badly when fitted but it is still old and knackered! I for one would never replace my (safety critical) suspension with parts if I knew it wasnt rebuilt, new or an upgraded part.
George Elliott
New member
For the purpose of A&B road daily driver, 15k miles per year, I really like my M030.
It (the suspension) has approx 25k miles on a car with 130k miles, and is set about 60% stiff.
It handles well, (rolls a bit as they do) but remains comfortable.
I am curious about the KW suspension. It is always highly rated by all.
Would my car benefit from KW for my type of use, or is it a track day system?
Does KW include the other suspension components or just Dampers/Coil springs?
George
944T
It (the suspension) has approx 25k miles on a car with 130k miles, and is set about 60% stiff.
It handles well, (rolls a bit as they do) but remains comfortable.
I am curious about the KW suspension. It is always highly rated by all.
Would my car benefit from KW for my type of use, or is it a track day system?
Does KW include the other suspension components or just Dampers/Coil springs?
George
944T
George Elliott
New member
Interesting, - partly surprised because I thought KW was a track mod which would almost spoil a daily driver.
But I am conscious that although the M030 is comfy and keeps things tidy with regard to bounce and wallow, it does allow a lot of roll and makes "blending out" oversteer a bit tricky as it will twitch because it is.... well you call it agricultural.
So, KW, Corner weighting, - std ARB's? std Bushes? Strut Brace Upper? Lower? Std Geometry? Std Ride Height?
Thanks for answering my question, and and and rubbishing my pride and joys suspension ! [8|]
George
944T
But I am conscious that although the M030 is comfy and keeps things tidy with regard to bounce and wallow, it does allow a lot of roll and makes "blending out" oversteer a bit tricky as it will twitch because it is.... well you call it agricultural.
So, KW, Corner weighting, - std ARB's? std Bushes? Strut Brace Upper? Lower? Std Geometry? Std Ride Height?
Thanks for answering my question, and and and rubbishing my pride and joys suspension ! [8|]
George
944T
Diver944
Active member
George, I too have M030 suspension (10k since rebuild) and find it good for normal road use and moderate track work. Where it falls down is that it doesn't soak up the bumps on a poor surface and the car gets a bit jittery. During very hard track use on grippy tyres it then becomes too soft with a lot of lateral body roll in the corners and an excess of bucking and diving when braking and accelerating.
I've been in a KW car and whilst it is a much stiffer suspension that vastly reduces the roll and diving it also has a very clever, modern bypass valve which quickly softens the damper when it hits a bump. This means that car is flatter in the corners but at the same time it is more comfortable over the bumps. Heads you win, tails you win [
]
I've been in a KW car and whilst it is a much stiffer suspension that vastly reduces the roll and diving it also has a very clever, modern bypass valve which quickly softens the damper when it hits a bump. This means that car is flatter in the corners but at the same time it is more comfortable over the bumps. Heads you win, tails you win [
]Hilux and I have KW with Weltmeister ARBs and I think he'll back me up that that is a superb setup on the road. I haven't been in a KW car with standard (or more likely 968 M030) ARBs. I bought some 968 M030 ones but didn't fit them - they are like toys compared to the Weltmeister ones.
I also have poly bushes and solid top mounts and apart from squeaking and chattering they are fine IMO, though for the road you might want to back off from the top mounts and the Elephant Racing roller rear bushes that I would buy if I had my time again are silent.
It depends on the depth of your pocket.
In terms of geo I'd say go for the most aggressive settings Porsche recommend (I think it was for 1989) as they vary and get it set accurately to the most aggressive end of the tolerance they allow. Oli did that and I think he's happy except that it's too planted and he can't slide it around any more.
KW recommend a ride height and I stuck with it.
I also have poly bushes and solid top mounts and apart from squeaking and chattering they are fine IMO, though for the road you might want to back off from the top mounts and the Elephant Racing roller rear bushes that I would buy if I had my time again are silent.
It depends on the depth of your pocket.
In terms of geo I'd say go for the most aggressive settings Porsche recommend (I think it was for 1989) as they vary and get it set accurately to the most aggressive end of the tolerance they allow. Oli did that and I think he's happy except that it's too planted and he can't slide it around any more.
KW recommend a ride height and I stuck with it.
George Elliott
New member
Fen, that all sounds like the cost for fit & align could begin with a 3 [>:]
Whats you view of the Lower ball joint at the front when you go with KW's suggested ride height, - leave it std?
I've read about the strut coming adrift and thats definitely not my scene.
George
944T
Whats you view of the Lower ball joint at the front when you go with KW's suggested ride height, - leave it std?
I've read about the strut coming adrift and thats definitely not my scene.
George
944T
George Elliott
New member
Heavy looking ARB, is it hollow tube or solid?
Who did your align/setup/corner weighting?
I share your view of Red calipers[] - mine are the same shade.
Thanks for the images
George
944T
Who did your align/setup/corner weighting?
I share your view of Red calipers[
] - mine are the same shade.Thanks for the images
George
944T
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