MAF Kits

[AndrewRivervaleHove]

Hi All. Has anyone experiences from fitting a MAF kit to an S2?

I have found a German developer that sells a (rather expensive) kit and was wondering if the newer technology would offer 'significant' (subjective?!) gains in terms of drive-abilty, responsiveness, torque?

https://www.tomsdme.shop/p/tom-s-maf-kit-porsche-944-s2-1989-91

https://www.tomsdme.shop/p/tom-s-chip-porsche-944-s2-1991

My initial thought was to purchase a new ECU chip from them, but was wondering about going all out, with the MAF upgrade.

Many thanks in advance... Andrew

 

[Eldavo]

I wouldn’t bother with a MAF kit as it’s just piggybacking onto old tech, especially when you can get a standalone ECU and whole new loom for not much more (then sell your old ECU and AFM to recoup a chunk of the cost.

https://danstengineering.co.uk/Porsche-944-3.0-S2-968-Engine-Management-Package?search=944

I have a very strong suspicion that all "Tom” has done with the chips is copy the Lindsey Racing/Promax chips and add a tasty markup.

 

[scam75]

I wouldn’t bother with a MAF kit as it’s just piggybacking onto old tech, especially when you can get a standalone ECU and whole new loom for not much more (then sell your old ECU and AFM to recoup a chunk of the cost.

https://danstengineering.co.uk/Porsche-944-3.0-S2-968-Engine-Management-Package?search=944

I have a very strong suspicion that all "Tom” has done with the chips is copy the Lindsey Racing/Promax chips and add a tasty markup.

Very much agree with that. That is the old SciVision kit with HFM5 Bosch MAF unit, hot film. I have the SciVision kit on my turbo which i think I paid about £200 2nd hand many many years ago, they did retail at £800 back in the day. I do get less lag, and it breaths a bit better, definitely worth the £200 I spent but not 5 times that with modern alternatives like Eldavo lists.

On a side note, I would really like a brand new loom for mine, and it would seem "Tom" has access to them, with a 944 turbo one in his picture!

I will ask if he can do me a loom standalone, I dread to think what price he might ask, but I'll give it a go!!

Stuart

 

[PSH]

Hi Stuart

Regarding engine looms, you'd be surprised at the amount of companies supplying looms these days, some of which include modern ECU's etc...google will show you the options. Looms are also available for the S2.

Pete

 

[TTM]

The good old days...

https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=135959

 

[PSH]

The good old days...

https://www.porscheclubgb.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=135959

You can't beat the old days...????

Pete

 

[scam75]

Hi Stuart

Regarding engine looms, you'd be surprised at the amount of companies supplying looms these days, some of which include modern ECU's etc...google will show you the options. Looms are also available for the S2.

Pete

Hi Pete

I probably wasn't very clear there, I would like a new wiring loom only for the MAF kit, mine has seen better days. One end plugs into the AFM connector and the other into the Bosch MAF, and there is a little box (or cylinder on Tom's page) of electrickery that converts the MAF signal to an AFM signal.

Stuart

 

[scam75]

Got a reply from Mr Tom.......they won't sell me little adapter loom on it's own. [8|]

 

[blade7]

I wouldn’t bother with a MAF kit as it’s just piggybacking onto old tech, especially when you can get a standalone ECU and whole new loom for not much more (then sell your old ECU and AFM to recoup a chunk of the cost.

https://danstengineering.co.uk/Porsche-944-3.0-S2-968-Engine-Management-Package?search=944

I have a very strong suspicion that all "Tom” has done with the chips is copy the Lindsey Racing/Promax chips and add a tasty markup.

Someone that knows what they're talking about, suggested to me that a guy called Russell Berry was probably the brains behind others chips and MAF kits. He died 3 or 4 years ago, and development seems to have pretty much dried up since then.

 

[TTM]

I believe Tom Voigt who does this MAF has been doing his own chips for decades, before anyone else.

With that said I think the best chips these days which use 100% of the standard hardware, including the cycling valve, are made by another German tuner called Rolf-Dieter Eichner who runs the company ETG. I fitted his chips to an '87 turbo I had upgraded to a K26/8 and full 3" LR exhaust for a friend and the car was a riot, screaming up to 7000 rpm. That remains to this day the best 2.5 engine set up I ever drove (I drove his 3L 8V car some years back which back then made 500 bhp and the car was borderline terrifying bursting with torque all over the place... and it has since been upgraded to 600 bhp with a sharper custom camshaft). He has been digging into the Motronic since the 1990s and went as far as rewriting the Motronic code to replace the AFM with a MAP sensor. His machine shop installs deckplates on 944 blocks. He did mine. Just saying.

Not affiliated to either.

 

[Eldavo]

It’s not that difficult to pick up an EEPROM programmer for less than £20 off Amazon along with a handful of chips, download TunerPro and start tweaking your existing map or pull the map off an existing aftermarket chip and make some tweaks. Pretty sure that’s what Wayne Schofield does to give people OEM custom chips - but that’s a lot of work on his part, dyno sessions and then physically removing the chips (or more likely using a piggyback programmer) to update them every time.

If anyone has a spare set of aftermarket Turbo chips (dme and klr) id be happy to have a look under the hood and see what gains or tweaks could be made?

 

[blade7]

Jon Mitchell said there was a lot more capacity in the DME than was ever used, and it seems it's more robust than the aftermarket ECU's. Jon was working on a setup of his own, but 944 tuning in the UK dwindled around 10 years ago, so he dropped it. Also I'd have thought if there were some 'wonder' German chips around, they would have been copied years ago.

 

[PSH]

Jon Mitchell said there was a lot more capacity in the DME than was ever used, and it seems it's more robust than the aftermarket ECU's. Jon was working on a setup of his own, but 944 tuning in the UK dwindled around 10 years ago, so he dropped it. Also I'd have thought if there were some 'wonder' German chips around, they would have been copied years ago.

I've read that about the original DME's too Paul...they are a lot more capable and robust than some give then credit for.

In regards to David's comments on Wayne, IMHO he is the best tuner out there with the decades of experience needed to tune an engine both properly and of more importance...safely. Such tuning does take time and not cheap but worth every penny.

 

[PSH]

Jon Mitchell said there was a lot more capacity in the DME than was ever used, and it seems it's more robust than the aftermarket ECU's. Jon was working on a setup of his own, but 944 tuning in the UK dwindled around 10 years ago, so he dropped it. Also I'd have thought if there were some 'wonder' German chips around, they would have been copied years ago.

I've read that about the original DME's too Paul...they are a lot more capable and robust than some give them credit for.

In regards to David's comments on Wayne, IMHO he is the best tuner out there with the decades of experience needed to tune an engine both properly and of more importance...safely. Such tuning does take time and not cheap but worth every penny.

 

[dlknight]

Interesting topic this, I'd be interested in possibly changing from the existing AFM setup when I've rebuilt my engine. I was chatting to Andy from Promax the other day and asked if he would be able to make a set of the 944 Turbo chips. He still has the software and programmer and produced a couple of sets of 968 chips for a group buy by the folks over on the 968uk forum. Not heard back from him yet as I know he mentioned it was hard to source the 24-pin EEPROM chips for the KLR (although I have found an ebay seller selling used ones). I see Tom has a set of 944 Turbo chips for 295 euros, wonder what the difference is between those and the Promax ones.

 

[Eldavo]

You can get 24 Pin EPROMs direct from China for about £1 each. The only issue with those is you need a more expensive programmer than an EEPROM due to the programming voltage requirements and a UV drawer to blank them.

 

[blade7]

Interesting topic this, I'd be interested in possibly changing from the existing AFM setup when I've rebuilt my engine. I was chatting to Andy from Promax the other day and asked if he would be able to make a set of the 944 Turbo chips. He still has the software and programmer and produced a couple of sets of 968 chips for a group buy by the folks over on the 968uk forum. Not heard back from him yet as I know he mentioned it was hard to source the 24-pin EEPROM chips for the KLR (although I have found an ebay seller selling used ones). I see Tom has a set of 944 Turbo chips for 295 euros, wonder what the difference is between those and the Promax ones.

AFAIK the Promax chips were tweaked Lindsey/Berry chips. Andy was selling off the old Promax stock on ebay a while ago. I wonder if he has anything left gathering dust? I have late Promax turbo chips in my DME/KLR, that could be copied, after I switch over to VEMS.

 

[PSH]

Funny this talk about Promax chips...look what I just found while doing the final sorting in my new workshop..

944 turbo promax chip https://imgur.com/gallery/WjkMwWo

 

[blade7]

Judging by those trousers, I reckon a tramp may be living in your workshop Pete [].

 

[PSH]

funny you say that Paul, that's exactly what I say to my wife when she wants me to pop into the village for a bite of lunch.... can't be seen outside in work clothes...

Pete