Mid 80's Turbo Cars

[George Elliott]

Just thinking how well engineered the 944 turbo was/is.

other turbo cars from the era: Model year 1985

Saab
Sierra coz
Fiesta RST
Metro / Maestro
HF turbo
Big Citroen
Renault 5GTT
Quattro

i find it quite amazing that the 944 had digital engine mgmt, an aluminuim engine, and a crank / torque tube / transaxle unit that was so bullet-proof.

George

 

[Lowtimer]

Yep, a good observation. Some cars there which were ok at the time - I particularly liked the Citroen CX Turbo and the R5 GT Turbo. But from that list, how many of those cars today still combine crediblility as high performance cars (even in comparison to modern stuff) with still being capable of use everyday transport too? Most of what's on that list is near enough extinct, to be honest.

A good Cosworth Sierra can still be quick and pleasant, and there are a small number of decent ones left, and a good Quattro is a nice piece of nostalgia, though it feels a bit slow and nose-heavy these days. The first Integrales, of course, didn't come out until two years later, in 1987. For completeness we must also add the Esprit Turbo, which (apart from the 911 Carrera 3.2) was the car most often compared with the 944T in contemporary road tests. I saw one of those on the road last week and they still look sharp, but I doubt they are anything like as usable today as a 944T.

I think the 944T is by far the pick of the crop, which is of course why I have one.

Edited to say I see from looking it up that the Cosworth Sierra didn't actually go on sale in 1985, though it was shown. The first sales were in 1986. I believe that the 944T did actually go on sale in 1985?

 

[George Elliott]

Yes there are '85 944 turbo's around, though not many.

I think the culture at Porsche at the time was to engineer everything perfectly, its the same era as the 959 was created.

Perfect conflicted with out-performing the 911 so perfect became less rapid, but the ceramic ex-valve seats stayed, and the unique? turbo mounting / engine mounting and oil cooling / return casting, so much of the car was way ahead in technical terms, plus Audi screwed them together very well.

I wonder if the DFI engines will bring back that level of engineering or, much as it pains me to say it, do we have to look to nissan for that now?

George

944T

 

[TTM]

Nissan? I'd rather have a look at the Toyota Supra MkIV.
Two door coupé with a hatch, an unburstable engine and the gearbox at the back.. It's just a shame it's as heavy and cumbersome as the 928 it was supposed to compete against.

 

[Mike_Pollock]

Saw a Sapphire Cosworth at Rockingham a few weeks ago looking good and very quick, even in the damp conditions.
It now has single digit miles on it - cleared 99999 on the day.
Pics here - Rockingham
And clip here - Rockingham Video
Mike

 

[MRGT]

I owned a 1986 Nissan Silvia ZX turbo (precurser to the 200SX) for 4 years and put nearly 80, 000 miles on it wtth no issues whatsoever, car finally died at 188,000 miles when ECU packed up and I couldn't find another (This was just before Google made life soooo much easier ).

Howard

 

[Hilux]

Saw a Sapphire Cosworth at Rockingham a few weeks ago looking good and very quick

Set up and driven properly they are just as quick but the settings are quite extreme for regular road work.

 

[ever88]

I agree with all that is said, but would like to upgrade my 944t to the turbo s spec to get the little extra bhp

is there a simple cheap way?

not keen on bosting the rocks out of an old car to get 300ish stuff that I have read without replacing head gasket and stronger bolts + other bits.

 

[Suffolk944]

Yes the 944 Turbo is certainly is/was so much better engineered than most if not all of its boosted contemporaries but to be fair it was far, far more expensive too !

Ever88 yes there are simple/cheap(ish) ways of getting a little extra BHP, what sort of figure were you thinking of ? Even just replacing the wastegate with a dual port example will net a decent gain without even going down the route of boost and chips. A chip is also relatively cheap and makes a big difference. Cheapest/simplest would be what is called a Boost enhancer which effectively bypasses the rather weak wastegate, will add a few horses and more imporatntly will mean that boost is held longer through the rev range. Think it costs around £80 from memory and was the first mod I made to my original turbo. Of course its a slippery slope from that point on....

 

[DivineE]

ORIGINAL: ever88

I agree with all that is said, but would like to upgrade my 944t to the turbo s spec to get the little extra bhp

is there a simple cheap way?

not keen on bosting the rocks out of an old car to get 300ish stuff that I have read without replacing head gasket and stronger bolts + other bits.

Yes. A small package including a chip, 3bar fuel pressure regulator and adjustable bleed valve to control the boost will enable a good 220 turbo to reach around 290-300hp. It is not a major issue to run this kind of power out of a 220 car. The head gasket doesn't fail because your pushing the boundaries but more because they look like soggy tea bags after 20 years and probably needed replacing anyway. Some people have had their cars chipped without changing the gasket and never had a problem but most often people replace it (and its sensible to do so) with a new standard gasket. If you take the opportunity to check your bores and clean up the backs of your valves while the head is off. Plus take the car somewhere local and get it pressure tested to see if it has any boost leaks you'd be spot on target for achieving a reliable 290hp every day and the car feels WORLDS apart because its more about the torque increase with the 944 than bhp figures. The car will be and feel a lot faster.

Changing head studs and things is unnecessary for your plans.

p.s. parts can be bought from Promax motorsport for a few hundred pounds. Their products are safe and well tested at this level.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

The head gasket doesn't fail because your pushing the boundaries but more because they look like soggy tea bags after 20 years and probably needed replacing anyway.

Seconded. I know nothing about the Turbos, never had one, but in the 7 or so years I've been actively around the cars and fora I've seen plenty of cases of people doing bits and pieces to them only to find the HG is going, or gone. If it's original, it'll be ready to be replaced and any other work just seems to hasten the need to change it.

 

[DivineE]

Oh yes and in response to the rest of this thread I love almost all the other cars listed. I simply couldn't believe how rapid the AXGT was, the R5GTT has some deserved place in my memory and is on my list of cars to own one day, the Sierra Cosworth is just fantastic. I'm not sure how genuinely fast they really are. We once followed the Jamsport (known by some here) 400hp Cosworth in an almost standard 300zx and it didn't actually pull any ground. The way it went about it however was just fantastic! All theatre, back scraping the floor, black wiggling lines, four wheels spinning and a nice little angle out of every roundabout and low speed corner. It spat its way down the road in an aggressive, larger spilling array of violence and destruction. It looked like a bag of fun in epic proportions.

I also once saw one enter a duel carriageway so sideways that I it covered both lanes and I held me breath. It slowly fishtailed its way straight using most of the width of the road in a long drawn out fashion and dissapeared off over the horizon, I can only imagine the grin on any drivers face must be from ear to ear behind the wheel.

 

[Suffolk944]

I love most of them too and had a 5GT Turbo and a HF Turbo back in the day. Both were great cars in their own ways though my HF was written off when my bank manager crashed into me, but thats another story !!

 

[DivineE]

ORIGINAL: Suffolk944

I love most of them too and had a 5GT Turbo and a HF Turbo back in the day. Both were great cars in their own ways though my HF was written off when my bank manager crashed into me, but thats another story !!

Haha now that is a story. I know previous 944 turbo owner who bought one and was laughing at the ridiculous amounts of grip he was getting on the long corner at Mallory causing the oil warning light to come on... right up till the moment the engine seized[&o] forgot to mention I love that and the Quattro too. Ohhh the sound. My friend had one with a stright 2.5" pipe on it, no silencers. It was probably the best thing I've ever heard - sounded like it was doing 6000rpm when it was at 4000