Mobil1 10w-60 motorsports formula

[Carrerac2]

Hi everyone, let me start by introducing my self. I have been on the forum for a while, but this is my first post. I a proud owner of a red 1990 944 turbo which I have owned for about 7 years. My problem is this. I have been using Mobil1 10w-60 extended life in my car. But I have notice they don't seem to sell this anymore. It's now call Mobil1 motorsports formula and the API is M, extended life was API SN/SM/SL. I'm just concerned the ZDDP is lower. I have searched the web but can't find an information on ZDDP for Mobil1 motorsports formula. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[blade7]

I think Jon Mitchell posted something about this a while back. I'd have thought unless you're tracking the car a 10w-60 may be a bit heavy. Anyway I've been using Millers CFS 10W-50 for years without issue and the last time I checked it had sufficient ZDDP for our engines. If you're feeling flush you could try the nano stuff.

 

[AndrewCS]

Not knowing what ZDDP was ... found the following:

http://www.frost.co.uk/zd...D4uG95MxLOwaAtOJ8P8HAQ

Historically, the anti wear additive used in the majority of oils was a compound known as ZDD (Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate). The phosphorous content of ZDDP and its ash, has a detrimental effect on catalytic emission systems.
This has led to new oils being developed to meet modern regulations, which have reduced levels of ZDDP. These new oils may cause serious problems in a classic engine. Add one bottle of ZDDP at each oil change to protect the gears, cam and followers and add life to your engine.
Note: Millers Classic Oils still contain sufficient ZDDP.

 

[blade7]

1400 ppm ZDDP in Millers CFS which is plenty for 944 engines.

 

[Carrerac2]

Thanks for the replies. blade7, I may go with the Millers CFS if I can't get definitive answer on the Mobil1. I think the post you mentioned with John was confirming that Mobil1 10w-60 extended life had sufficient ZDDP.

 

[John Sims]

I seem to recall being told by an oil specialist that the additives and stuff used to achieve the 60 hot equivalent viscosity (10/60 being quite a broad variation) actually broke down over a relatively short period of time so you were left with, in effect, a 10/50 oil. I can't remember how long it retained its original rating though. This was 10 years ago so probably irrelevant now any way.

 

[blade7]

It was quite a long thread on tipec. I don't mind paying a bit extra for the right oil, though I've read Mobil 1 had a massive advertising budget and ultimately it's not Mobil that pay for it.

 

[blade7]

I seem to recall being told by an oil specialist that the additives and stuff used to achieve the 60 hot equivalent viscosity (10/60 being quite a broad variation) actually broke down over a relatively short period of time so you were left with, in effect, a 10/50 oil. I can't remember how long it retained its original rating though. This was 10 years ago so probably irrelevant now any way.

In days gone by I may have used the expensive oil I took out of my P&J every 3k/year and recycled it in my daily runabout.

 

[TonyKart]

I think Jon Mitchell posted something about this a while back. I'd have thought unless you're tracking the car a 10w-60 may be a bit heavy. Anyway I've been using Millers CFS 10W-50 for years without issue and the last time I checked it had sufficient ZDDP for our engines. If you're feeling flush you could try the nano stuff.

Agree with above, used Millars CFS for years, in track cars

 

[924Srr27l]

It's all about wear and protection, I'm just about to change from 20W50 Mineral to Semi Synth

Lindsey Racing advised me on my new build (1990 3.0 S2 honed block) & New Wossner Pistons etc..to use a Running in Oil for the first 200 miles then a Low detergent Mineral oil.
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-6516-motul-classic-oil-20w-50-from-1950-mineral-engine-oil.aspx

High in Zinc & break in properties etc..

The next change after 4 changes (Every 750 miles) will be
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-114445-motul-2100-15w-50-technosynthese-classic-engine-oil.aspx

R

 

[ian harvey]

Plenty of reference to Millers. You can ring them direct and be put through to one of their tec guys. They are very knowledgeable and friendly and make good products. I also found the 10/60 heavy and you may find a more eager engine if you swap it.

 

[scam75]

I tried a 10/60 a while back. Not ideal for a Scottish winter, too long for oil pressure to rise in freezing mornings for my liking. Went back to 10/50. Now use Total Quartz Racing 10/50 fully synth which can be had on ebay for about £50 for 10 litres. Not really sure of the zddp content but it seems to meet Porsche A40 spec whatever the hell that is!

Stuart

 

[924Srr27l]

I tried a 10/60 a while back. Not ideal for a Scottish winter, too long for oil pressure to rise in freezing mornings for my liking. Went back to 10/50. Now use Total Quartz Racing 10/50 fully synth which can be had on ebay for about £50 for 10 litres. Not really sure of the zddp content but it seems to meet Porsche A40 spec whatever the hell that is!
Stuart

Was the 10/60 v 10/50 comparison the same Brand and Type ?
Only both have the same Cold viscosity 10W, but the 10-60 has a higher figure when Hot (Good for More heat and longer journeys)

From Cold the Oil Pressure should be high on your gauge (Like 5Bar?) because it's cold, thick and has all been sitting in the sump.
If the first (Cold Viscosity) number was 20W it would take Longer to get thinner and for the Oil pressure Reading to reduce, not rise
So I'm unsure why you've got low Oil pressure and a 10/50 makes the reading rise? to a higher figure quicker than a 10W60.

You should have high Oil pressure from Cold as the Oil flow is slow and thick to move through the Oil galleries.


R

 

[edh]

From my measurements, cold oil pressure is ~7bar (S2 high mileage engine, 10w60) - but you won't see that on a standard 944 gauge, which anyway is in most cases approximate at best. I guess you're talking about the first couple of seconds to reach that pressure on start up Stuart?

I've read some interesting posts from Sean Buchanan (Australian 944 tech) recommending 20w50 for 944 track use, he says it's the best option for protecting the bottom end.

 

[blade7]

I've read some interesting posts from Sean Buchanan (Australian 944 tech) recommending 20w50 for 944 track use, he says it's the best option for protecting the bottom end.

Hot climate mostly and I think they change the oil frequently.

 

[scam75]

I tried a 10/60 a while back. Not ideal for a Scottish winter, too long for oil pressure to rise in freezing mornings for my liking. Went back to 10/50. Now use Total Quartz Racing 10/50 fully synth which can be had on ebay for about £50 for 10 litres. Not really sure of the zddp content but it seems to meet Porsche A40 spec whatever the hell that is!
Stuart

Was the 10/60 v 10/50 comparison the same Brand and Type ?
Only both have the same Cold viscosity 10W, but the 10-60 has a higher figure when Hot (Good for More heat and longer journeys)

From Cold the Oil Pressure should be high on your gauge (Like 5Bar?) because it's cold, thick and has all been sitting in the sump.
If the first (Cold Viscosity) number was 20W it would take Longer to get thinner and for the Oil pressure Reading to reduce, not rise
So I'm unsure why you've got low Oil pressure and a 10/50 makes the reading rise? to a higher figure quicker than a 10W60.

You should have high Oil pressure from Cold as the Oil flow is slow and thick to move through the Oil galleries.


R

Hi. No the 10/60 was Lucas and the 10/50 is Total Quartz. I did have very good cold oil pressure, just took longer to build with the 60. Interestingly I used to run 10/40 semi, then have had 10/50 fully and also the 10/60 fully. And I can say the pressure built quickest from cold start with the 10/40, slightly longer with the 10/50 and longer again with the 10/60. Ultimately they all maxed out the gauge quite quickly, but in that order. Also as you would expect the 60 kept highest hot pressure, 50 slightly less and the 40 less again (about 0,5 bar decrements).

Stuart

 

[924Srr27l]

You should have high Oil pressure from Cold as the Oil flow is slow and thick to move through the Oil galleries.
R

Hi. I did have very good cold oil pressure, just took longer to build with the 60.
Stuart

Ok, so the gauge is showing a Low Oil pressure reading from cold and it takes time to show a higher figure?
My car is opposite to this, High pressure and low flow when the Oil is Cold & thick and a lower reading when the Oil
is HOT and thin as the flow is higher.

Is this something to do with a Turbo Application? , Does it have an External Oil Cooler ..

R

 

[scam75]

Yes it does but I think you've missed what I'm meaning. I'm discussing the time to reach max on the scale from cold start up. We're only dealing in split seconds but quickest with the 10/40 to slowest with the 10/60.

Stuart

 

[924Srr27l]

Yes it does but I think you've missed what I'm meaning. I'm discussing the time to reach max on the scale from cold start up. We're only dealing in split seconds but quickest with the 10/40 to slowest with the 10/60.
Stuart

Yes I've got it, you have low cold Oil Pressure which takes time to rise
R

 

[scam75]

Well, no. I always have very high cold oil pressure. But the length of time from firing the engine to seeing the gauge max out is what I am referring to. In other words although this process is quick, 2 seconds max, cold weather affects it (slows it down) as does the 40/50/60 of the oil. Lower number/quicker rise.

Stuart