My AFR Doesn't Like The Cold

[robwright]

Hi all. My AFR doesn't seem to like the cold. I am running the innovate model. On start up in the mornings it doesn't receive any sinal from the lambda sensor. It does run fine when the car is restarted and warm. This evening it also recaslibrated itself to something ridiculous. Is anyone else suffering this or should I be worried?

 

[barks944]

The sensor does need to be at a certain temperature to function properly I think. Maybe it's not heating up quick enough and it's going into an error mode? Haven't put my innovate wideband into my turbo yet, but I might do this weekend if I get my new A/C compressor.

 

[robwright]

OK I will try and get you a pic of where I mounted mine. Although don't laugh at the welding. I only had a stick welder available to mount the boss. Not the prettiest welding I ever did but did the job nice [] Where are you planning on mounting it? You should mount it as far down wind of the turbo as possible. The wideband sensors aren't too good with very hot exhaust gas. Where I mounted mine the wire goes straight through one of the existing bulkhead grommets and the black box can be hidden behind the wooden panel in the passenger footwell where the DME & KLR are. The cable is not very long to the black box from the sensor. Even so I had to cut the cable to get it through the bulkhead and resplice it as the plug is fairly bulky and is hard to squeeze through the grommet (in fact impossible). You will of course have to reseal with plenty of silicon after you are done. PM me your email addy if you want some pics mate.

 

[sawood12]

Tom is right in that they need to heat up to work. Maybe if you call the guys at Lindsay Racing they can help you troubleshoot or tell you if cold temps can affect their operation. They know these things pretty well.

 

[robwright]

Evening Scott. Oh it does heat up and normally carries out the heat cycle every time you switch on the ignition. It just seems on these freeze the balls of a preverbial mornings of the last 4 or 5 days it doesn't like to play. Like I said when you start the car afterwards and it is warm - no probs. I am just thinking I wonder if there is some moisture collection that is icing up on the tip??? Then again these things are really designed for racing and not these conditions. Don't worry mate I won't be knocking on your door asking for a refund []

 

[JamesO]

I'm running a VEMS wideband, which uses a bosch sensor and the manual states that it should be installed as close to vertical as possible to avoid collection of moisture at the tip. Or at least 10 degrees from horizontal (assuming its not in the down pipe).
Not sure what sensor yours uses but the sensor itself does have a finite lifespan which is reduced by running richer than stoich or running without the heater element.

 

[robwright]

All these are true mate and yes the innovate usess the 5 wire Bosch sensor also. It is pretty standard. However achieving the 10 degrees as stated in the manual is nigh on impossible in the turbo due to the complicated exhaust set up of crossover pipe etc and mounting it after the turbo. Also running not rich is almost impossible when you are running after market chips designed for 15 - 18 psi which delibrately run the engine rich to prevent it from melting []

 

[barks944]

Would like to see some pics Rob. Although I think I remember seeing some bungs welded into the exhaust already. Is that right Scott?

 

[robwright]

ORIGINAL: barks944

Would like to see some pics Rob. Although I think I remember seeing some bungs welded into the exhaust already. Is that right Scott?

The existing hole is for a mainstream narrowband sensor that was required for the US for emissions. Trouble is it is on the crossover pipe before the turbo. Narrowband sensors are not too fussy about heat so not really a problem. It is a different story however with wideband sensors. They are particularly sensitive to heat and should be mounted after the turbo. In order to do this you will have to make your own hole and weld the boss in.

 

[sawood12]

Rob bought the wideband kit from me - it was one of those works in progress I was juggling along with 2 kids and a job that is demanding more and more hours and travel in the current economic climate! I had the bung fitted into the exhaust which is what you've seen Tom, but never got round to installing the kit itself.

I bought the kit from Lindsey Racing who use the Innovate kit as their wideband kit of choice. They recommended that it is fitted either just before or just after the 90 degree bend from the turbo exit downpipe as this is cool enough for the sensor but also warm enough so any moisture in the exhaust is not condensing and collecting on the probe tip, which is a potential issue if the probe is installed too rearward in the exhaust where H2O in the exhaust gas can condense (which is why you see water splattering out of exhausts sometimes). In this position, if my memory serves me right, you can only install the probe in the 9 o'clock position if you are looking at the car from the back. Therefore I was advised to angle the probe downwards such that any moisture that does get onto the tip can drain out (there is a very small hole at the end of the tip where moisture can get in). This is the usual position the Lindsey boys install the probe - however I guess they never see temps as low as +5 degrees let alone colder than freezing temps. Thererfore in these cold conditions I guess is entirely plausible that any moisture in the exhaust is condensing, collecting on the probe tip and freezing.