New 944 owner after some advice

[The Count]

Hi all my names James and i've recently become the owner of an A reg 944 in black. The body is in reasonable condition for a car of its age, however the previous owner blew the engine up and i'm now in two minds as to what to do in terms of engine replacement. I do know that what ever went wrong with the original engine sent part of it through the block so thats not very well anymore. Do i find another 2.5 8v or go for either of the 16v's?
I've had a ponder over previous posts regarding the subject but i still havnt found any firm info to suggest which option is best. I understand fully the work involved in the swap and the fact i will need the loom, exhaust manifold etc but i don't know if there will be any great advantage to fitting one of the later more powerful 16v's?

Thanks in advance

James

 

[barks944]

The question you have to ask is if the extra power is worth the extra time, cost and complexity of fitting the later 16V engine? If I was fitting a second hand engine, either 16 or 8v I would be refreshing the seals, belts, rollers, probably the bottom end and maybe the rings depending on the state of the engine. All of that work is way easier with the engine out and its going to be less hassle further down the line.

 

[The Count]

ORIGINAL: barks944

The question you have to ask is if the extra power is worth the extra time, cost and complexity of fitting the later 16V engine? If I was fitting a second hand engine, either 16 or 8v I would be refreshing the seals, belts, rollers, probably the bottom end and maybe the rings depending on the state of the engine. All of that work is way easier with the engine out and its going to be less hassle further down the line.

My appologies for the rambling into - Yes that's basically my question and what I want to know.
Are are people happy with the 2.5 8v? Or are they considered underpowered?

 

[barks944]

Umm, thats kind of another hard question to answer, it really depends on the application. The 2.5 8V engines are setup to achieve a broad torque curve. This makes the power very accesible but it never really amazes. A good engine though will shift the 944 fairly well and you can make excellent pace.

The factory ignition maps are very conservative and the engine doesn't really feel right with it IMO. Theres a fair bit more performance in the 2.5 8V engine than it came with from the factory. I will be experimenting soon with a MAP/TPS based setup which I hope will dramatically change the charachter of the 2.5 engine. I might then look into camshafts which also do make quite a difference but aren't readily available.

Making *big* power from the N/A 2.5 8V engine is never really going to make much sense financially. But really theres plent of performance there to be enjoyed and its doesn't need to be flogged to death.

 

[Suffolk944]

If you are talking about the 2.5 16V engine from the S, then I would say no it would not be worth it. It does develop more power (when healthy) but its a very peaky unit and I would suspect that in "real world" driving you wouldn't be any faster when compared with sticking with a 8V unit.

However, the 3.0 16V engine from the S2 is a totally different kettle of fish, though what else along the drive train would have to be changed I would not like to hazard a guess. Our own Peter Empson here on the forum did such a transplant (and then for good measure supercharged the engine !). If you use the somewhat dodgy search function here for his posts from a while back you may well find information as to whats involved.

He may even be along presently if you are lucky...

 

[The Count]

Ah ok thanks for taking the time to reply, i understand my questions are quite broad and difficult to answer.

Application wise I'm planing to use the car as a weekend/track day car and basically wondered as said befor if the 16v engines were worth the extra time, money and effor for the increase in power?
I need the engine to be reliable so wont be heavily modifiying it what ever engine i decide to use.

I'm stuck between the original 8v as that would be easier and more cost effective and the later 16v's as they offer more power out of the box.

 

[colin944]

I would say the s2 engine is a fine lump but you would need alot of work to get it in. loom, ecu, brakes,suspension mods, etc etc etc . If you are building the car for track and as a toy then a 2.5 8v or a 2.7 8v and a serious amount of weight reduction will give good results.

 

[Indi9xx]

16v engine (as long as you have everything under the bonnet, exhaust as well as the loom and ECU) on a 1986 onwards car is a really easy swap.. the loom more or less plugs in and everything else is nuts and bolts... but into an early car it more taxing on the wiring (but not the end of the world)

My advice would be to probably buy a whole S2 and sell the lux.... but then again sometimes thats not as much fun as the reward of hours of effort turning into "I did that!" rather than the easy route..

 

[The Count]

I understand that buying an S2 would be much easier however i did come accross this car at a reasonable price and i think it deserves to live on. Plus i have a soft spot for the early ones. I understand that what ever i do its not going to be easy or simply and there are varying degrees of difficulty depending on the decision i make.

Currently im having difficulty finding a 3lt engine, ive tried the usual routes including ebay and some of the breakers with little joy - the one i have found is very expensive imo?
I have found a customer through work thats local that has a stripped out shell with the engine still intact (2.5 8v) so i may take a look at that and see what its like.

 

[DivineE]

If you keep on at the breakers there should be no shortage of engines at the moment as rust seems to be killing a lot of cars at MOT time and the engines are ridiculously sturdy.

Also at odds to my normal argument of MORE speed MORE power, I think if I were in your possition I'd stick an original 8v motor in it. They are far more common than the 16v engines so you'll have more choice and it'll cost you a lot less, they feel nice and torquey next to the 2.5 16v engine and not a long way down really on the S2 engine. Plus they are a lot cheaper to run and maintain as they are so simple and understressed.

I'd go 8v and be impressed by how great a car you got for almost no money rather than 16v with more complications/cost and wonder if you could have done better buying an off the shelf S2 for less.

Just an oppinion but I have spent a fair bit of time in all the different models and a few the factory never made.

Regards,

Ben

 

[barks944]

I would go for the 8V. If you stick the 3.0 lump in then you will have a lot of wiring to swap over. The connection between the later DME wiring looms and the rest of the cars wiring loom is different on the early cars. You will have to do a fair bit of re-wiring to get a 3.0 16V in there.

Edit: Is an A reg an early or late dash model?

 

[Sandspider]

Can't comment on the engine swapping procedure (I've not done one - wish I had the know how!) but I have a 2.5L 8v Lux, and I drove a 2.5L 16 valve S before buying the Lux. The S was a bit faster, but only if you really thrash it (I felt most of the performance was over 4000rpm or so) so not very useable on public roads.

The Lux is not blisteringly fast, but it is more than fast enough for our roads, and as said the power band is wide (2000 RPM - 6000RPM) - it will pootle along at 35 in 5th gear, and will accelerate in the same gear up to 120+ mph. It's a lot of fun to drive, and it handles beautifully. I seldom drive it at much over 4500 RPM, as there's no real need to do so...

 

[Indi9xx]

If you struggle to find a engine, let me know, I always have a good 2.5 Lux, Turbo or S2 in the process of being broken up for parts.

Not always the cheapest, but you will get a guaranteed part that has been tested

 

[Mike_Pollock]

Edit: Is an A reg an early or late dash mode

Early square dash with the short steel front wishbones (which I think is the reason for the go-kart handling handling of the early cars), steel rear end and the two point gearbox mounting.

Also they tend to be light - PAS was optional - sunroof less common, no electric seats headlight self levellers etc