New Arrival Suggestions

[dixhuit]

Just couldnt resist it to add to our collection. Been looking for a Track day special and ........ 86 oval dash 944 lux BUT fully blueprinted S2 3 litre lump with 235bhp at rear wheels and big go faster crease in rear wing,cracked front spoiler and non sport seats. Original 2.5 gearbox and 15" teledials. Blisteringly quick acceleration but limited on top speed. So Suggestions please other than a good bucket seat !
!) Do I put some 8 by16 alloys all round (as I believe Paragon did on their racecars)
2) Or 16 by 7's front and 16 by 8" rear
3) What road legal sticky track tyres
4) Exhaust (Castle Coombe is my nearest track so performance not noise is required)
5) What else
Dont have an unlimited budget but need new rims and tyres for sure
Simon

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: dixhuit

.....fully blueprinted S2 3 litre lump with 235bhp at rear wheels

Simon

That sounds like shed loads for an S2 as it would equate to 280ish at the fly wheel. No wonder it's quick.

Upgrades are funny things and very personal. Really only you can tell where the shortcomings are and upgrade accordingly.

If the car doesn't grip well at the front bigger tyres may help but equally it could be due to soggy suspension (or too hard at the front and not hard enough at the back).

Road legal track tyres are a compromise and often very frightening in the wet because they can't clear enough water. You would be better getting a set of track wheels and fitting slicks.

 

[dixhuit]

Thanks John
280 ish is what my mechanic reckons as well. We will certainely be looking hard at the suspension.(uprated shocks on the list as are some serious calipers)
Thanks for the advice on the tyres. Rims/tyres will be my main areas of research before I dip my hand in my pocket and make an expensive mistake.
Current rims are oe 15" teledials with MOT failure rubber so a tyre change was factored in to the purchase anyway.
Simon

 

[Diver944]

If you have the later offset hubs then 16" Design 90's would be the cheap way to go but it's getting harder to find reasonably priced track rubber for 16" wheels so you may have more luck with 17's

If you can find the right sizes then Michelin pilot Sport Cups seem to be the best for long life and ultra grip but come in at £150 - £200 each

www.bmtr.co.uk often do good prices for 16" slick tyres if you are prepared to change over at the track. Last time I looked they had 250 wide 16" hard compound for around £60 each

 

[dixhuit]

Thanks
Its an early 86 so my mech says 17's are different offsets etc. But appreciate 16' track tyres are harder to come by. Trying not to compromise handling with spacers etc. However my good ladies S2 is on cup 17's and I have loads of legal partially worn Continentals tyres and it would be nice to have the same size rims for both cars. 2 sets of rims would solve the track day problem as I intend to drive it to the venue and I know from my GT3 friends road legal track tyres can be lethal on wet roads.
Cheers
Simon

 

[lali]

If you are going to run slicks on track then make sure you have had your oil pickup pipe braced.
I know a few 944 racers who run on 15"'s and prefere the way the car feels on them over 16"'s..
and I'd try changing the fluid and pads for a track setup before you go down the much overrated ( IMO ) route of upgrading to big reds/blacks.... I would be looking at getting the cage seats and harness fitted first.

Who did the engine work?

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: lali

.....and I'd try changing the fluid and pads for a track setup before you go down the much overrated ( IMO ) route of upgrading to big reds/blacks.... I would be looking at getting the cage seats and harness fitted first.....

I'd have to disagree with that, having set light to the brakes on a Lux chasing a Vanquish around Snetterton. []

Lux's have a single piston floating calliper - (um nice!) so not even "Small Blacks" [] Porsche didn't put bigger brakes on the S2, Turbo and Turbo SE just to increase the unsprung weight. You should have brakes at least equivalent to to the engine.

 

[dixhuit]

I am awaiting all the paperwork. The car has an interesting story. It was owned by a wealthly gent down here in the South West of senior years. He has a serious collection of toys.(Planes, trains and autos including an E-type owned from new but not driven for years). We have a brilliant porsrche specialist locally and he took this car to him well over a year ago to do some work on it. Ill health and a loss of licence has led him to reconsider his options (he wants to restore the Jag). He had run up quite a bill for more work at the specialist !. So we contacted him and did a deal. The engine is a fully blueprinted race prepared 3 litre S lump. Dyno'd at 235 bhp rear wheels.Chassis and underbody A1. Rear wing is creased, spoiler cracked and bog standard trim. So the project begins ........ I have owned many Porsches inc a 997 C2S but I have to say though I cant quote 0-60 times this cars acceleration is mindblowing. Once I have all the documentation I will post a full details of the Specialists and their work . Havent got shed loads of money to throw at it but it was so well under budget that coffers allow some more work.
Simon

 

[edh]

A low geared S2 engined 944 sounds just perfect for track use [] - should be good for 135+. can't think of many places where you'll hit the rev limiter in 5th, even on slicks (Hangar Straight @ Silverstone maybe?)

I'd start with suspension & brake pads, especially if you're going to run some soft tyres.

Getting the power down on 15's might be a problem, although less so with slicks - I don't know if Porsche ever did 8J or 9J x 15 wheels

 

[dixhuit]

John,
Brakes are definitely on the list. Just put new brembo calipers on my ladies S2 and have to agree with this cars power I want to stop quickly !! Unless something collapses on the suspension etc the only two items that keep you safe are being able to stop and the rubber that keeps you on the road. These will be the first priorities
Simon

 

[edh]

The cheap brake option - fits under 15's

http://www.rennbay.com/944-big-brake-kit-p-83.html

 

[Neil Haughey]

ORIGINAL: lali

and I'd try changing the fluid and pads for a track setup before you go down the much overrated ( IMO ) route of upgrading to big reds/blacks.... I would be looking at getting the cage seats and harness fitted first.

Who did the engine work?

I have 225 wide hankook RS2 on the front of my S2 and in the dry I was still getting the ABS to cut in on the main straight (100+ to 30 braking zone). This is with stock S2 calipers but x-drilled disks, uprated pads, 968 ducts (crucial IMHO without these my brakes would overheat on the road!) and ATE blue fluid. With slicks it might have been a different story.

 

[lali]

ORIGINAL: John Sims

ORIGINAL: lali

.....and I'd try changing the fluid and pads for a track setup before you go down the much overrated ( IMO ) route of upgrading to big reds/blacks.... I would be looking at getting the cage seats and harness fitted first.....

I'd have to disagree with that, having set light to the brakes on a Lux chasing a Vanquish around Snetterton. []

Lux's have a single piston floating calliper - (um nice!) so not even "Small Blacks" [] Porsche didn't put bigger brakes on the S2, Turbo and Turbo SE just to increase the unsprung weight. You should have brakes at least equivalent to to the engine.

My bad... missed the "lux" part

 

[lali]

ORIGINAL: Neil Haughey

ORIGINAL: lali

and I'd try changing the fluid and pads for a track setup before you go down the much overrated ( IMO ) route of upgrading to big reds/blacks.... I would be looking at getting the cage seats and harness fitted first.

Who did the engine work?

I have 225 wide hankook RS2 on the front of my S2 and in the dry I was still getting the ABS to cut in on the main straight (100+ to 30 braking zone). This is with stock S2 calipers but x-drilled disks, uprated pads, 968 ducts (crucial IMHO without these my brakes would overheat on the road!) and ATE blue fluid. With slicks it might have been a different story.

I have 245/45/16 MPC's all round. ATE blue fluid Brembo X-drilled discs and Mintex 1155's 968 ducts havent had any locking issues... yet

maybe Im not trying hard enough

 

[Neil Haughey]

It is odd actually, I have these BHP XPS pads and they claim to work from cold like a stock pad. However I find that from cold I have to give the pedal one hell of a kick down to get the ABS to cut in, after about 1/2 dozen hard stops the brakes bite much harder and the ABS cuts in with a hefty shove on the pedal rather then trying to break it off! It seems that even though these pads are deemed not to be an out and out race pad they definitely work much better once they have had some serious heat worked into them. I verified this again on the way home this evening.

I have to add to that when I was getting the ABS working in the dry at Bedford it was starting to get scary, a fair few times I didn't think the car would stop and I would have to bail out on turn 1.

On the road the car is totally flat and stable under braking but I was finding that in this "balls out" type braking the car was starting to get a little lively and dance about a bit (zero toe-in in case anyone asks). The last time I felt this was in a heavilly modified mini that even with fully rose jointed suspension would do the same thing.

245 wide MSC would probably give more instantaneous G then my tyres so you may have that bit extra to not get the ABS going without one hell of kick into the pedal. However I did hear before that there are people that race 968's with MO30 calipers and have no problem getting the ABS working.

 

[dixhuit]

Not sure ABS is fitted as it was only an option (I think ?) on the 86 model year. When I test drove the car the brakes were ..... well lets say somewhere between ify and non-existent. Pedal travel to almost the floor. Its getting a complete fluid change and then my specialist will give it a serious check over. I like the idea of 16.s by 8" all round. Maybe Fuchs or 90s . Given its essentially an S2 we will have to get some calipers that are up to stopping the beast.
Simon

 

[edh]

brake master cylinder shot?

 

[dixhuit]

ORIGINAL: edh

brake master cylinder shot?

Could be, but the brake fluid is definitely of pensionable age !

 

[John Sims]

ORIGINAL: Neil Haughey

....245 wide MSC would probably give more instantaneous G then my tyres so you may have that bit extra to not get the ABS going without one hell of kick into the pedal. However I did hear before that there are people that race 968's with MO30 calipers and have no problem getting the ABS working.

Interesting! I had assumed that because the ABS is working grip has gone and therefore braking is too hard. I endeavour, not always successfully, to try to keep just off the ABS working.

In the early days of ABS I understand BMW racers would dive much deeper into corners and trail brake letting the ABS do it's thing around the corner. I've never had the nerve to try it in the 944.

So what it the view of the masses then?

a) Brake as hard as possible and let the ABS sort it out.

b) Brake as hard as possible without the ABS intervening

I look forward to your comments.

 

[sawood12]

A good driver will be able to stop quicker without ABS. When you're ABS is chattering away you are only braking half the time so the optimal braking performance is holding it just before you loose traction. Also don't forget that ABS cuts in before the tyres actually loose grip and so you are not even getting to that optimal braking point before the ABS kicks in. I only got my ABS to chatter at Bedford when the car would hit a ripple in the track under heavy braking for the hairpin. You could remove the fuse for the ABS on track days if you wanted to disengage it.

I'm surprised on a dry track with sporty tyres you could get the ABS to kick in at all. The ABS on my wifes Mini seemed to cut in at anything above normal braking pressure but Porsche seem to have set it nice an close to the limits of adhesion on the 944 - or maybe i'm not trying hard enough.