'New' (but actually 11 yr old) standard S2 suspension struts-Update

[pauljmcnulty]

I would be taking it up with them. Porsche famously manufacture runs of parts, and price them until they are sold. I'm not sure the price would have been seen so high when new, and what would the part cost on a 991? The downside is that they won't start a new parts run until the old ones are sold. That means there's a potentially huge increase in price, or it's not worth manufacturing new if there's limited demand. I can't afford to do my S2's suspension, as so many other things have come up in my time owning it. I think that, given the labour costs on top of the parts, I'd be going for something newer like KWs when I am in a position to deal with it.

 

[Frenchy]

Small chips compared to what you have spent but i ordered some brown interior trim screw caps, every one of them cracked when fitting due to being brittle, no doubt sat on a shelf somewhere for donkeys.

 

[MJL944]

My 1989 S2 (198,000 miles and still running the original stock suspension) is getting treated to new shocks & springs (and bushes) in a couple of weeks.
After MUCH deliberation and advice I decided to keep things stock and therefore ordered 2 new fronts struts, 2 rear shocks and 2 new front springs from an OPC well known to this forum and today I picked up £894 worth of suspension goodies - and here they are:

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I recall a recent post from JMG (on the TIPEC forum) about a 944 they saw where the seals on replacement 'new' standard front struts had failed (within a year of fitting I seem to recall) because the 'new' struts had actually been sitting in Porsche's warehouse for years before being fitted. With this story in mind, I asked the OPC I ordered my struts from to try to ensure they obtained the most recently produced struts possible from Germany.
What I've received today are 2 struts with what would appear to be the date of manufacture stated as 23.12.2003 on the Porsche factory sticker on the box:

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So, considering these struts were an eye-watering £225 each (and that's after a generous OPC discount), should I be insisting on more recently produced parts?
Has anyone taken delivery of any front struts in the past that have a more recent date of manufacture on them?

Or, should I not worry?
Will 11 year old struts be OK?
Let's face it, my (nearly 26 years old) original struts are not leaking and still do a job.

Any advice would be appreciated, especially if anyone can confirm they've ever received more recently produced struts and from whom.

[Incidentally the date of manufacture for the rear shocks is Nov 2009 and the Springs are March 2004 but I'm OK with the dates on those parts]

Regards,
Mark

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: MJL944 .... should I be insisting on more recently produced parts? <Snip> Will 11 year old struts be OK? Let's face it, my (nearly 26 years old) original struts are not leaking and still do a job.

Your 26-year-old struts have been used regularly for the last <ahem> 26 years. Those 'new' ones will have been stationary for the last 11 years and hence the seals won't have been flexed and neither will they have been lubricated. I can't guarantee that this will lead to early failure but I can be pretty sure that the odds of a long and productive live (another 26 years?) are not in your favour. Given that fitting the parts is a reasonable amount of work, and that removal and replacement in the event of early failure will mean repeating all this work (and expense) then I would be very reluctant to fit them. Just my £0.02's worth, but I'd be taking them back and either asking for a HUGE discount (90%?) or thinking about other options. There's another thread on here about suspension options for a '91 Turbo, and all those options will apply equally well to your S2. Oli.

 

[Neil Haughey]

I agree with Oli on this, I fail to see how they can guarantee the quality of an item filled with fluid and gas at pressure held back by seals which has sat on a shelf unused for over a decade.

 

[Monkeythree]

Sachs and BOGE are both ZF brands so it might be worth speaking to the ZF technical helpline first and see what they say before going back to your OPC? Might put you in a better position to negotiate a refund/discount if ZF can quote a shelf life? [link]http://www.zf.com/brands/content/en/boge/technical_service_boge/technical_inquiries_boge/technical_inquiries_1.jsp[/link]

 

[MJL944]

Thanks for the informative replies, Gents. All the comments & suggestions have been duly noted, although it really wasn't what I was hoping to hear! A particular thanks to Monkeythree - your link to the ZF site is much appreciated and is a great example of how some forum members go out of their way to help others on here. I have emailed ZF about my issue and if/when I get a response I'll update you all. You are correct that Sachs is part of the ZF group - a sticker on the 'new but actually 11 years old' strut is as so:

[/URL][/img] I've also emailed my concerns about the 11 yr old struts to the OPC involved. Unfortunately the Parts Manager who I'd placed the order with wasn't present when I picked the parts up but I must stress I'm not blaming the OPC involved as they can only work with what Porsche in Germany send them and the OPC in question is very well known to many of you and they are highly regarded. I've also emailed Porsche GB about the issue and I've even emailed several well known specialists in the UK to ask if they have any 944S2 struts in stock and to check the manufacture date on the sticker. I'll buy from them if they have anything substantially newer and insist on the OPC taking back the 'new' struts they supplied me with. What I could really do with is some proof that there has been a newer batch of struts produced so if anybody has an old strut box lying around and can report back on the date that would be great! I fear however that '23.12.2003' may be the most recent production run though in which case I'm going to be reliant on what ZF's technical department come back with. Incidentally, while checking one of the struts and moving the strut shaft gently up and down by an inch it left some light white grease on the stem as can be seen in the following picture - I'm assuming that's just some lubricant and not the seals already failing just by moving the shaft by an inch up and down by hand?> [/img][/img]

 

[Neil Haughey]

Err you certainly shouldn't be able to move the shaft up and down gently, when I got 'new' from Porsche 968 shocks for our 968 a few years back the shocks were pretty much rock solid trying to push them in by hand. The rears are different and can be pushed in with reasonable force but I found it very difficult to push new front struts in at all by any distance.

 

[ChasR]

I'd also look at getting replacements and not using those. However I would not also use Boge dampers after an iffy experience on two daily drivers. Because of this iffy experience I was very reluctant to buy them again for my now sold daily driver which wanted 4 dampers all round. I would either get Bilstein B6s (if you can) or Konis. As Paul said the KW setup is superb with it getting a thumbs up from me, but cheap it is not.

 

[MJL944]

Finally, a resolution to this issue..........although not an altogether satisfactory one! First up, ZF replied to my query within 48 hours as so:

"If the Shocks have been stored correctly i.e. cool dry place, then 10 or 11 years isn’t a problem. As with all shock absorbers that have been stored even if only for a short length of time we would recommend cycling the parts by hand 10 or 15 times prior to installation. This will purge any air that may be trapped in the base valve or piston rod valve.

This left me trying to find out if Porsche could supply more recently produced front struts which I did on 2 fronts: - I asked the OPC that supplied the parts but they never had the courtesy to reply. They'd got my money and they simply lost interest and even though I was still waiting for them to order another 2 parts (as they'd omitted them from my initial order) they didn't order those either as it was seemingly simpler to ignore me and hope I'd go away. Not impressed and I'm unlikely to ever use them again despite them being touted as one of the 2 best OPC's to order 944 parts from in England. They also kept me waiting 1 hour to pick up the parts from the desk! - I emailed Porsche customer assistance via their fancy web-site and the initial impressions were excellent as I got an email back from my 'personal advisor' within 24 hours who (after asking for and quickly receiving some photos of the date labels) stated that Porsche Parts GB were

'in discussion with Porsche Germany regarding the dates on these labels'.

And so we waited. And waited. After 2 and a half weeks of no response (and with my S2 now waiting at the garage that's replacing the suspension for most of that period, semi-stripped and awaiting my go ahead on whether to fit the supplied struts or not) I lost my patience. A strongly worded email was sent demanding Porsche GB either give me an answer as to whether newer struts were available or either stand by the parts supplied (in writing) or offer me a full refund. This elicited a phone call & email response last Thursday that was as follows:

Porsche Germany have confirmed that as the Shock Absorbers provided have been stored correctly, they are confident that there should be no fault with them, despite the manufacture date. I can also confirm that there is a 2 year Parts Warranty included which will be valid from the date of purchase.

I've pointed out to my advisor that although the above is hardly a ringing endorsement of the supplied parts (and that I suspect Porsche Germany never actually got in touch but that Porsche GB had just come up with that statement - possibly after contacting ZF like I did!), I will accept the parts and have instructed my garage to go ahead and fit them. I also pointed out that they'd still not confirmed whether a newer batch of struts have ever been produced. Most disappointingly, my advisor stated that even if newer struts were available (and remember, we still don't know if they are) Porsche would not supply me with the newer/newest parts and would only supply what was next on the shelf ready to be sent out. Let's assume Porsche have some sort of stock rotation policy where newest parts (if available) are put at the back of the shelf and are only supplied when the previous (older) batch have been sold. All in all, this has been a rather dismal consumer experience! To end on some good notes though: - My garage have cycled the struts several times as requested and commented that the parts look to be in excellent condition. - The manufacturers ZF have stood by the parts so there should be no real concerns in the short to medium term with these struts. Whether they live as long as the (25 years/198,00 miles old) current struts would be interesting to see. - I have 2 years to regularly check these struts - any evidence of failure of the seals and they'll be straight off and I'll be experiencing Porsche GB's wonderful customer assistance process again! - The initial strip-down of my old girl has revealed no major problems - all good above the rear beam, wishbones seem OK, top mounts OK, bolts holding the tops of the rear shocks in place have 'practically disappeared and will need drilling out as they've never been off' but other than that she seems in fine fettle! I'm eagerly looking forward to experiencing driving a fully re-bushed car with new standard suspension - oh, and a rebuilt gearbox too. Thanks again to all above who offered advice and comment to the initial query.

 

[944 man]

Leicester? Not fantastic service from anyone concerned. Remember that the warranty just makes it easier. If they don't last, and Id expect ten years or more (although the law only extends to six years), then you can take the supplying OPC to court and you will win without a great deal of trouble.

 

[simkin911]

968 owner on 968uk bought new from Porsche in 2012. They failed after 25 months. He complained. No success or comeback. He's gone for kwv3 but wasted a lot of money. The shocks didn't even have a hard life in that short period. Poor show.

 

[MJL944]

Leicester? Not fantastic service from anyone concerned.

Let's just say an OPC in the East Midlands that isn't Nottingham! Nobody's had a bad word to say about them previously so I've probably just been unlucky. I'd expressly stated my concerns to them that Porsche would supply new struts that were actually old and was hoping that their knowledge, experience and support for the 944 model would be reflected in them doing as much as possible to make sure this didn't happen. Oh well, chalk it down to experience. I'll be checking the struts regularly and simkin's report of another early strut failure on replacement parts isn't what I want to hear but after 2 years of ownership of my S2 I've sort of come to realise that if I stop worrying about her, she'll be fine!

 

[Neil Haughey]

To balance that at a similar time I bought new Porsche stickered and part numbered Sachs shocks for my 968 through type911, drove the car around for 2 to 3 years the shocks were perfect then sold the car to EMC Motorsport who sold it to Faze-1, the suspension was the one thing on that car that was spot on and perfect it was the rest of the car that was a moneypit. I sold the car in the summer 2013 and was glad to see the back of the POS and get some money back into my wallet. I hate to say it but apart from the engine and suspension tuning everything else on the 968 different to a 944 was a monumental step backwards in terms of quality and durability.

 

[ChasR]

ORIGINAL: Neil Haughey To balance that at a similar time I bought new Porsche stickered and part numbered Sachs shocks for my 968 through type911, drove the car around for 2 to 3 years the shocks were perfect then sold the car to EMC Motorsport who sold it to Faze-1, the suspension was the one thing on that car that was spot on and perfect it was the rest of the car that was a moneypit. I sold the car in the summer 2013 and was glad to see the back of the POS and get some money back into my wallet. I hate to say it but apart from the engine and suspension tuning everything else on the 968 different to a 944 was a monumental step backwards in terms of quality and durability.

Aha, so that is where you 968 ended up after EMC? . How did you find the stock (but new) suspension? Was it bouncy and a little wallowy (slightly that is) at all? What other setups have you tried bar the Gaz Golds? .

 

[Neil Haughey]

Gaz 2 ways, Koni yellow and OEM Sachs both S2 and 968. For a road car I feel the 968 OEM Sachs shocks are just about spot on but a bit harsh really, the Koni yellow inserts make more sense on a cost basis. Both very similar in terms of ride and composure. To put things into context at the same time my wife had a new MX5 2.0 sport which couldn't see which way the 968 went cross country. Even on 16" wheels you would run out of guts long before the car ran out of composure and cornering ability its why I never bothered putting 17's on the car as it just didn't need it. The Gaz 2 ways are not bouncy by the way once one has the correct setup on the car its just that on the road its a bit too jiggly to really work and is more suited to the track but even on track once the grip is up the car will still roll and squat like crazy just at a much higher speed.

 

[ChasR]

ORIGINAL: Neil Haughey Gaz 2 ways, Koni yellow and OEM Sachs both S2 and 968. For a road car I feel the 968 OEM Sachs shocks are just about spot on but a bit harsh really, the Koni yellow inserts make more sense on a cost basis. Both very similar in terms of ride and composure. To put things into context at the same time my wife had a new MX5 2.0 sport which couldn't see which way the 968 went cross country. Even on 16" wheels you would run out of guts long before the car ran out of composure and cornering ability its why I never bothered putting 17's on the car as it just didn't need it. The Gaz 2 ways are not bouncy by the way once one has the correct setup on the car its just that on the road its a bit too jiggly to really work and is more suited to the track but even on track once the grip is up the car will still roll and squat like crazy just at a much higher speed.

Now that is very informative, thanks . You shall have to keep us posted the next time you head down up to EMC for old time's sake .