New pads & possibly discs for an S2

[H823ENM]

Hi

I've tried the search function on Brakes and it didn't help too much, I need to replace the pads on the front, can anyone suggest a good road pad, I don't hang about when driving so they do come in for a bit of punishment, but at the same time I can't wait for them to warm up, should I stick with the official ones or try something else,

cheers

m

 

[Justin85]

I have recently replaced both discs and pads on the front of my 944S2. I went for Sebro standard disks (to replace the Zimmermann drilled disks) with the T0377 Pagid pads which all came from Eurocarparts. IIRC the disks were £60 each and the pads £44 for the four. I have always used Pagid pads with good results and am pleased with the performance this setup offers for reasonably fast road driving.

ECP also offer a Pagid "fast road" pad for £60, but were out of stock when I was buying.

HTH

Justin.

 

[Diver944]

For road use I've always used normal OEM pads, be it Pagid, Textar, ATE or whatever Bert had in stock at the time. Last time out I tried EBC Green from Stuart ( the 968 Secretary) who runs http://www.k300performance.co.uk/ and they are also a great road pad which leave less dust on your wheels [8D] Mention the club for a good price.

 

[TK2015]

I've just swapped from OEM to EBC Red Stuff. They are fade resistant but squeeeeeeeeel and dust like buggery []

 

[sawood12]

I'm with Paul on this, for road use stick with standard, you'll get no benefit whatsoever by using competition or 'fast road' pads for normal road use.

 

[H823ENM]

Thanks guys, I suppose I'd best give Exeter a call and see what price they can offer

cheers again

martin

 

[Peter Empson]

ORIGINAL: sawood12

I'm with Paul on this, for road use stick with standard, you'll get no benefit whatsoever by using competition or 'fast road' pads for normal road use.

It's probably just me, but I have to admit I cannot really get on with standard pads, even on the road. Trouble is, I think once you've felt the bite and experienced the pedal feel of a really good carbon metallic pad there's no way back.
I could live without the cost, disc wear, dust and noise though! (although I do find the noise useful if you practice heal and toeing, it helps you notice if you vary the brake pressure as you twist your foot and blip the throttle).

A bigger downside on a non abs car it is also much, much easier to lock a wheel. I guess on an S2 it will just be easier to trigger the abs.

Best regards,
Peter

 

[lali]

I use Mintex 1155's on the road... they seem to be more than up to the job and last a good while too.

 

[H823ENM]

Peter

I don't suppose anyones developed a dust free pad, even invisable dust would do, I'm not that familiar with Mintex, do you buy from somewhere in particular and do they have to warm up much, I use my car as a daily driver so the brakes are on pretty quick.

Martin

 

[Peter Empson]

EBC Greens are supposed to be as dust free as possible, trouble is I really don't think they suit cars as heavy as ours- in fact I haven't really got on with any of their range over the years, although I clearly do enjoy late braking and like a fairly untielding setup which others would probably hate. For less aggressive road driving they should be acceptible, but my gut feeling is that they may be a small step behind factory pads in terms of overall ability (however I've not done this direct comparison, so others may disagree).

The Porterfields I use are a little dead for the very first slow stop in the morning, but they've never caused me any problems as they come up to temperature very quickly. I buy these fom EBS racing in the States as they're really over priced in the UK (from memory it's $99 v £150+). However this is a rather extreme pad and if you're concerned about dust then I'd definately stay away from them.

I've not tried Mintex but have heard lots of good things about them, trouble is I've wasted a lot of money on pads that I didn't like and had to bin them, so am loath to move away from what I'm currently finding works. I think you can get Mintex from Demon Tweaks, but there are bound to be other places that are cheaper.

If I was in your shoes I might just contemplate making sure I had really good fluid like Castrol SRF or Response and sticking with something closer to standard pads, this would present less of a gamble and help keep the dust manageable.
Best regards,
Peter

 

[sawood12]

The problems with performance pads is that they need some heat in them to work properly, and for normal road use you are unlikely to get the heat into the pads, and these things don't tend to work very well when cold. I had EBC red stuff ceramics and they were verging on dangerous when cold. The cold bite was virtually non existent. They never felt 'sharp' like the standard pads did. I've got EBC yellows in at the moment (which i'm going to ditch for standard pads) and they are much better but still are not as sharp as standard pads.

What i'm trying to say is that if you are just using the car on the road for normal driving then standard is best. If you want/need the performance at higher temps then performance pads are the way to go. Also in my opinion standard discs are also the way to go. When choosing pads and discs people (me included) rarely consider the combination of disc/pad. Just as pads are made from different materials that have benefits and downsides, so are discs and some pad/disc combinations will work better than others. This is probably why there is such a wide variety of opinion on this subject. Therefore if you don't need the benefits of performance pads and discs just stick with standard. Porsche spent alot of time matching up the disc/pad materials combination to give you a 'best compromise' for normal driving conditions.

I am still staggared that dust generation is still a feature that some people consider when selecting pads. Surely you should choose the best pad for your application and just wash your wheels more often. Why would you want to compromise braking performance for the sake of asthetics?

 

[Neil Haughey]

Scott whilst in general what you say is true I have been very pleasently surprised by how well me BHP XPS pads work from cold, as an example when me abs decided not to work I only needed the weight of me leg to lock the front brakes up at any speed. I have had a look at the wear on these recently and so far I am very happy.

I agree totally with Peter about the positives of performance pads and how when you get used to them you just don't want to go back.

One problem I found with the standard pads was that they tend to glaze over if the car is used for commuting. This then means a couple of hard jabs at the peddle are needed to bring the brakes back to life.

 

[Peter Empson]

Hi Scott,
I agree about EBC reds and yellows, I couldn't get them to work to my satisfaction either (there's some nearly new sets in my box of failed experiments []). However I think carbon metallic pads are in a different league and I'm convinced you will get a major benefit on the road if you enjoy the odd spirited drive. I think if you value bite and feel from your brakes then you'll experience a transformation, just don't expect to be able to go back to standard afterwards.

Personally I've never seen the need to use anything other than standard discs, plus I dont want the hassle of drilled discs cracking. However I may be tempted to cryo treat the next set of fronts just to see if I can make them last a little longer (without reducing the life of the pads naturally).

As for dust, I find carbon metallics in a different league from the rest too, sadly. My white wheels will be black after less than 100 miles of non motorway driving, and if left the dust becomes a hard thick layer on the inside of the wheels. All the leading edges of the car get coated in the stuff and it has a habit of rusting when it gets wet making it a bit more tricky to remove.
Still worth the hassle though. Plus I'm sure clean wheels are a sign of an obsessive compulsive dissorder []

Best regards,
Peter

 

[Peter Empson]

^^^^ Neil waffled less and got in their first []

 

[sawood12]

Maybe i've just not tried a good set yet then. Might reconsider when I get round to ditching the EBC rubbish.

 

[H823ENM]

Well, a lot useful advice, standard pads it is then, I'm not really fussed about the dust too much, it's just a bit ugly. Should I be ordering the repair kit as well or is this just done every couple of changes?

thanks

M

 

[Hilux]

The problems with performance pads is that they need some heat in them to work properly

I have to say that I was going to remove the PF pads I have and replace with standard for the road as the dust is quite aggresive however they are superb and I (like Peter) now do not think I could go back to standard pads. The PF pads are superb from cold and absolutely brilliant when hot, so good that the brake pedal pressure required seems to decrease as they warm and you end up easing off ever so slightly as the retardation builds (honestly) apart of course from panic stops or severe braking where they brake and scrub off speed rather than locking the wheels.

 

[sawood12]

I would go for PF pads but because my car is my daily all-weather runner and these days I don't get the chance to wash the car regularly (I washed it last weekend for the first time in about 5 months!) I worry about the damage to my wheels and bodywork the corrosive dust would cause. Currently looking to get a second (well third) car so I can relegate my 944 to a hobby/occational car so might reconsider a few months down the line.

It is worth noting that standard pads are not that bad - even for track use. Don't forget that one thing Porsches have always been noted for is their braking performance even with their standard setup. I'm sure the pad material on a Porsche pad is not exactly the same stuff Ford use on their common garden Fiesta. And it is also worth noting that Andrew Sweatenahm uses standard pads and discs - granted he's got the big blacks fitted, but they don't seem to be causing him too many problems when I've seen him in action on track. I think I might give standard pads a try. It is often tempting to upgrade brake pads before you have actually established that you've reached the limits of the standard pad - I know I havn't and just went down the road of aftermarket performance pads because it seems to be the done thing. So far it's caused me nothing but frustration and dissapointment.

 

[Hilux]

Standard pads can heat up more thereby tranferring heat to the pistons and then to the fluid. At the very least change the fluid for a high temp one.

 

[sawood12]

Is that true Paul? I thought that the whole point of performance pads is that they work better at high temps i.e. in the sort of temp range you tend to see on track and as a result don't work as well when cold - hence my experiences with EBC reds? Granted heat management is always a major factor with brakes and better fluid and increased cooling is always going to be beneficial.