New Seat Options

IanHighfield · Jan 3, 2011

As we move in to 2011 and the snow leaves us for now, I am turning my thoughts to track days and longer trips to Spa etc.

In my previous 1973 2.7 Carrera engined car I had fitted ST Seats and Tuthill mounts direct on the floor to give me as much leg and head room as possible.

The only criticism I have of the 964 C2 is that whilst the factory option sports seats are electric and heated and comfortable, they do not afford me as much leg, or more especially head, room that I will need to get a helmet on for track days - yes the car has a sunroof.

I have therefore thought about removing the driver's sports seat (store it in the loft) and fitting a Recaro and custom mount - but the question is, which one ?

Firstly, are there any C2 or RS owners near to Stratford-upon-Avon or Leicester that would allow me to try out their seats for size ?

I have heard that the Pole Position is quite tight, whilst the SPG-XL may be a better (and more RS specific ?) fit ?

If I go for one of these with the Recaro runners and side mounts, how much lower will I be than standard - i.e. will it give me enough extra room to fit a helmet on comfortably and will it go further back to give extra leg room ?

For the record I am 6' 3", 34" inside leg and 190 lbs (down from 208 lbs last January and aiming for a bit more yet)

Any articles or pictures of install ?

Also, any suggestions on a harness and harness bar - where do you fit the mounts ? etc. etc.

Ian

Paz · Jan 3, 2011

I have SPG's in my 968, you're more than welcome to try the passenger seat.
Perhaps the SPG XL will be a better fit being 35mm wider and taller in the backrest too.

I think the Pole Positions have more cushioning in the base squab which might be more comfortable on a long run.

38F3E1 · Jan 3, 2011

Ian.

Chris at GCR in Leicester has a race seat mounted in the 964 race car he has at his workshop. Only thing is car doesn't have sunroof but seat is mounted low so you will get a feeling what the driving position is.

Ian.

Steve Brookes · Jan 3, 2011

Here's a link to brief details of when I fitted recaro pole positions:

http://boxsey.blogspot.com/2010/02/recaro-pole-position-seats-fitted-jun.html

The side mounts allow them to be fitted as low as they can go when using sliders (can only just get my hand underneath them at the lowest point.

IanHighfield · Jan 4, 2011

Steve

Any idea how much extra head room the Recaro's give - my main problem is headroom, so getting the seat nice and low is a priority.

Also, what mounting points do your harness belts use - been reading your blog.

Ian

Steve Brookes · Jan 4, 2011

There is loads of head room for me but I'm only 5' 6". A friend who is 6' has driven it with helmet on with no problems so I think you would have enough room.

The harnesses you've seen were bolt in. So they fitted to the normal lower B pillar point and the two rear seat belt points for the shoulder straps. These were routed over a harness guide bar that fits between the top B pillar seat belt mounts. The inside lap belt attached to the left mount which has a welded nut for the normal seat belt receiver (Nb. This is a special feature of the Southbound mounts - normal recaro mounts don't have an attachment point so you have to buy a bracket for the slider). The bolt in harness came with spacers so that both the harness and normal seat belt could be attached to the same belt holes.

I've just bought some much better new Scroth harnesses. These were supplied with eye bolts that will simply replace the bolts used to attach the normal seat belts. The harness will then just clip in and out as I need it. The only problem is the inside mounting point because there's not enough clearance between the seat mount and the tunnel for it to simply screw in to the welded nut. So I've bought spreader plates so that I can attach it to the floor mount or rear of the side mount (I'll need to drill a hole). Nb. To be FIA approved for racing the inside eye bolt would be attached to the tunnel via a drilled hole and a spreader plate welded on to the other side of the tunnel.

Jon Kent · Jan 7, 2011

Harness bars simply bolt to the upper B Pillar seatbelt 'pivot' points.
I borrowed one for track use, from Don Traver's RSA when he was visiting.
Worked well, so I bought a Brey Krause one from PorscheShop.
Now I can fit the harnesses in 10 mins and remove them for normal use (with the kids in the back.....).
For the lap belts, I have loops already installed on the tunnel (was previously owned by Silverstone Circuits.....).
The Recaro PPs offer loads more headroom, as I've now got normal hardback seats and found it weird to sit so high.
Quite narrow, but very comfortable (I did Lux to RPM Cheddington and back in 2 days - about 800miles round trip...no issues).
Only removed them to get access to the rear seats.....PPs go back in for the trackdays [

].
Hope this helps some.....
Jon

IanHighfield · Jan 8, 2011

Thanks for the info and pictures.

I had Tuthills fix eye bolts to the transmission tunnel of my old 911 for harnesses, and they are unobtrusive so that could be an answer as Jon used - they are also removable in future in needs be.

Tuthills can source Recaros at good prices so I will go and sit in some and see how they fit the waist etc.

Will definitely need to sort them for any track days as no real clearance for a helmet at the moment.

Do the Recaros allow for a 5 or 6 point harness as I was concerned that 4 point do not prevent 'submarining' ???

Ian

asjasj · Jan 8, 2011

All FIA spec race seats will have the 'hole' for a 5/6 point harness.

A harness without a lower crotch belt is next to useless as you cannot tighten the shoulder straps sufficiently without the lap belt riding up.........fine for road posing - rubbish for holding you in place in the event of an accident.

Steve Brookes · Jan 8, 2011

While I agree that 5/6 point harnesses are the best and safest option, I've bought the Schroth Clubman II ASM 4 point harnesses. The ASM stands for 'Anti-SubMarine'. The right shoulder strap has a fold stitched into it. This breaks during a high impact collision preventing you from submarining. Also, while the shoulder straps are 3 inch, the lap straps are 2 inch which reduces the tendency of the lap belts to ride up.

asjasj · Jan 8, 2011

Interesting technology there Steve with the fold - can see some logic in how that would work.

Not so sure about 50mm lap belts riding up less than 75mm though.....do you have something that backs that up, purely out of interest?

Steve Brookes · Jan 8, 2011

Here you go Ade, Schroth's own words on the subject:

http://english.schroth.com/racing/technology/50mm.php

BTW as already said I'm not advising these Schroth 4 points over 5/6 points, just making people aware of what technology is available as a compromise. I also know that compromise is a bad word when talking about safety but it the decision was based only safety we'd all have full cages, 6 point harnesses, HANS, Nomex suits, plumbed in fire extinguishers before we ventured on track.

Melv · Jan 9, 2011

Begging your pardon Steve but I understand that the stitched fold on the shoulder straps on Schroth harnesses is to show whether they have been used in anger, i.e. the stitching rips under heavy load and the straps should then be replaced. I 'll check the disclaimer printed on mine when the car is back

While we're on the subject.......good source for new Schroth straps and Pole Positions anywhere?? Demon Tweaks coming in about £1500 for pair of both incl subframes for seats

Steve Brookes · Jan 9, 2011

The lightly stitched fold is just on the inboard shoulder strap. The yellow tab in the pic below shows its location (I must get round to putting them in the car some time [

]):

Here's the speil from Scroth about their ASM system:

http://english.schroth.com/racing/technology/asm.php

h_____ · Jan 9, 2011

For schroth try MSAR, they did me a great deal on a set for the Porsche. Esp this time of year as you can get ones that have one year less FIA life - which wont bother you melv. Its what I put in mine. Feel free to have a look a good look when you see the car!

I used to have a good contact in MSAR, but she has moved on.

Melv · Jan 9, 2011

Fairy Nuff Steve!

asjasj · Jan 9, 2011

I have just replaced the race seats in my rally car due to the 'excellent' 5 year FIA/MSA rule.......I bought them (Corbeau Pro-Series) from sportseats4u. Very impressed with the service and the price was very competitive. I paid just over £100 more for a new pair over what I sold the 4.5 year old ones for on Ebay!!!!

Pole Positions......

http://www.sportseats4u.co.uk/recaro-seats-pole-position-approved-bucket-seats-p-564.html

........come in at just over £900 for the pair delivered.

Melv · Jan 9, 2011

Thanx for links chasms -prices seem comparable

Will see what disc Porscheshop give!!!

Steve Brookes · Jan 11, 2011

ORIGINAL: IanHighfield

Thanks for the info and pictures.

I had Tuthills fix eye bolts to the transmission tunnel of my old 911 for harnesses, and they are unobtrusive so that could be an answer as Jon used - they are also removable in future in needs be.

Tuthills can source Recaros at good prices so I will go and sit in some and see how they fit the waist etc.

Will definitely need to sort them for any track days as no real clearance for a helmet at the moment.

Do the Recaros allow for a 5 or 6 point harness as I was concerned that 4 point do not prevent 'submarining' ???

Ian

If you haven't sorted anything out by the end of February, come along to the RS day at Oulton Park on Friday 4th March. There will be loads of 964RSs and 964s there with different seat combinations that you could try out for size.

IanHighfield · Jan 11, 2011

Steve

Planning to be there, and had booked as a reserve and considered the Saturday, but don't realistically think I will be ready for then, but want to do the 964 Donington day and others.

Ian