New To Forum - Returned To The Club after 15yrs !!!

bigfella70 · May 11, 2012

Hi

Quick post to introduce myself - new on the forum however former PCGB member from 1997 when I was into 928's ! How time flies

Just in the process of selling my classic car - 1975 Daimler Coupe and hoping to source an early 3.6 engined 996. Prefer a manual in silver with Black interior.

This will be a second "hobby car" however will get used and I have a european run to Spain in mind / planned for later this year ! Already have visions of a rear main oil seal letting go depositing fresh mobil synthetic on the Autoroute or perhaps grappling with defective coil packs at the side of some french services en route at 3 in the morning [

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Im picking up on the threads and guides for buying advice.

Club and forum seem superb. Im hoping to get to Cars In The Park at Newby Hall this Sunday too .

My budget is about 11k which I appreciate is going to be a higher mileage 3.6 at the lower end of the market, however ill try sourcing the best car I can privately for a cash sale. Considering one of those Quinten Wilson warrantys also for some peace of mind !!

Will update re progress and hopefully soon a purchase when I take the plunge !!!!

Regards.

Dave

Richard_Hamilton · May 11, 2012

Welcome back Dave!

Enjoy your search, and if you have any questions, post them up. £11k might be a bit optimistic, as for a facelift car you might find something for that money has been a bit neglected, but if you can do some of the work yourself, you might bag a bargain.

bigfella70 · May 12, 2012

Thanks Richard, much appreciated.

I'm concious that im at the lower and danger end of the market here !

There's a couple of early 3.6's that ive seen at 12,495 on ebay - links below. Both with dealers and just over 110,000 miles. I'd figure on that basis that I might be somewhere near my budget, especially with a private vendor.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261005754992?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-911-996-3-6-Carrera-2-/290697862171?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item43aef15c1b

My intention would be to look after fluids, filters, brakes, general care and maintainance myself and farm out anything more scary to a pro.

Main worries i've picked up on are the intermediate shafts going and rear main oil seals giving up although I am gathering these should be less of a worry on a 3.6 - hopefully !!!

Regards.

Dave

Richard_Hamilton · May 12, 2012

Over the last few years these cars have become affordable (to buy) for a much wider audience. People are buying cars which were £70k+ for less than the price of a new Fiesta, without realising the cost of running such a vehicle. The trouble is that 996s will keep going, even if neglected. The brake disks, for example, can be badly corroded, yet still work well. Suspension joints go, but they still drive perfectly well (if you ignore the noises). Aircon can leak, but it won't stop the car driving, etc, etc.

So you get situations where someone will buy a good car, run it for 2-3 years, face some large bills, and move it on. On the surface, it will look nice and shiny, and will probably drive very nicely, but will need a good amount of money spending to bring it back to tip-top condition. It may have a full service history, but that won't take into account the underlying faults.

What you really want to see is a large stack of receipts for major items over the last 2-3 years, as a positive sign that it is indeed a good 'un. If you are buying privately, and aren't a seasoned 'modern Porsche' buyer, it is especially important that you get a pre-purchase inspection done.

Don't get too hung up about an RMS leak. At worst, it will be the odd drip of oil on the garage floor. They don't gush. It can be replaced when the clutch is changed, at minimal extra cost. As for an Intermediate Shaft bearing failure there is no real pattern, but I would suggest that you are less likely to get a failure on a 110k miles car than a 25k miles car. If you want some warning, and peace of mind, you could fit an IMS Guardian.

Buy carefully, go in with eyes wide open, and don't let heart rule head.

bigfella70 · May 12, 2012

Thanks for the advice Richard - those are wise words that i'll be well advised to follow and I understand where you are coming from completely.

I've been doing some reading on the internet and have also ordered your handbook for the 996 on line this morning so ill look forward to reading up further on these cars.

I have experience over the years of other prestige makes and of the older classic car world. However since looking for a 928 back in 1997 I have been away from the marque, hence your advice and help from the forum is very well received.

Im heading up to "Cars In The Park" at Newby Hall tomorrow, so will hopefully meet some club and forum members and learn some more !

Regards.

Dave

jonnyp1 · May 12, 2012

Just a thought and hope I don't upset anyone on this forum , but for £11k you could get a cracking Boxster in great condition. I had one before my 911 and I still think its a great drive now.

Just my 2ps worth

Jon

bigfella70 · May 12, 2012

Hi Jon

Thats a good point you make and I have actually considered it when looking through the ads, but a 911 is the one for me !

One thing I am considering is looking at a slightly older, but well maintained 3.4

My original reason for going 3.6 was that I thought the potential engine issues had been completely eradicated, but on reading up various sources this doesn't seem to be the case. I am taking a pragmatic view and accept that any performace car can be a risk and costs to maintain, and that problems are relatively uncommon really.

So, I think I will include 3.4's in my search process and see what I can locate !!!

Im open to opinions / suggestions re this thought process !!

Regards.

Dave

thirteeneast · May 12, 2012

I've not even seen exploded 3.6 sell for 11k? I think that even optimistic for a MK1.
Fairly tatty 3.4 can make more than that.

I think £12,500 for a 3.4 and you should find a good one.

Happy hunting.

Diesel130 · May 18, 2012

ORIGINAL: bigfella70
... So, I think I will include 3.4's in my search process and see what I can locate !!!

Dave,

As an owner of a 3.4 996 for over 5 years, I'd certainly suggest that is a better option for your price range. Bought mine in Jan 2007 with 46k on the clock, now it's done about 75k (see the running reports if you're interested). Has been perfectly reliable in that time, but money spent on regular servicing and maintenance. As Richard says, they will run with very low cost for a while, then a few big jobs need to be done. Mine had a quite a bit of front suspension work done last summer, together with a couple of radiators. Mine is a 2000 model, so also benefits from pre CO2 tax banding.

It's not currently for sale, but last year, when I was looking at upgrading to a 997, I was only offered about £12k trade-in, so a year on and I guess (sadly) that it's only worth about £10k. With all the maintenence it has had done, that's a lot of car for the money. Given time, I would expect you can find a similarly pampered 3.4 for around the £11K mark, that would be a better long term bet than a leggy tatty 3.6, IMHO.

With regard to RMS/IMS etc, I don't get the impression there is a lot of difference between the two engines (and remember those cases are rare anyway), but if you read in depth Baz Hartechs research on engine failures (via the Hartech web site pdfs and various postings from him on PH), I think you'll find that actually the 3.6 engine is _more_ prone to bore scoring than the 3.4 due to some technical differences inside the engine (it was either thinner liners, or smaller cooling channels, or both, IIRC).

So, if you don't mind the look of the 3.4's headlights (I actually prefer them now, over the facelift's model), can do without a glovebox (they all have door pockets anyway) and can put up with a manual boot lid release, then the 3.4 may well be a good option for you...

HTH,
Martin.

P.S. Silver with black interior is a good choice

thirteeneast · May 18, 2012

Hi Martin,

My 3.4 has an electric boot release ;-)
2001.

Diesel130 · May 18, 2012

Good point... that came in before the facelift.

philippe · May 18, 2012

Very well put, get a nice 3.4 and it will be a very nice car to own no point in trying to get a not so good 3.6 that can have problems and a good chance within your price scale.

Good luck Phil

steveoz32 · Jun 1, 2012

Welcome and good luck finding a suitable weekend 911.

I might be tempted to part with mine soon, not entirely sure, but if I did it wouldn't be terribly expensive (shameless plug).

bigfella70 · Jun 17, 2012

Ok, time for an update and there have been a few up's n downs and changes of direction since my original post.

Having done some reading i'd actually managed to frighen myself right away from a 996 purchase - especially at my end of the budget !

In the meantime ive sold my Daimler coupe fairly quickly which put me in a position to really start hunting another car. I looked a BMW 6 series (2005), BMW Z4's , not running a second car and being sensible, however, taking a step back, thinking carefully and driving a couple of 996's has put me back in the frame for one !

Just been to view three cars over last couple of days as follows, all with dealers :

1) '98 3.4 carerra. 160k miles. £8500 negotiable. Viewed this car and walked away - struck me as very tired and passed between a lot of owners, most likely when the bills were looming !

2) '00 3.4 carerra. 80k miles . £11500. Negotiable price and overall seems a nice car. However needs tyres x4 imminently, 3x wheels needs refurbing due to kerb damage, both exhaust boxes blowing and full service looming. Drove nicely, bodywork good with a couple of minor grazes. Just doesn't make sense at that price with what's required , and of course there's always the further hidden extras once you get into the service etc. Would need to be about 9k to make sense to me. Strikes me that the last owner has seen the bills looming bailed out rather than spend the money!

3) '02 3.6 Targa. 120k miles. £12995 firm. Seems a nice car actually. Good body, interior, wheels, trim and comprehensive history including recent clutch and RMS at specialist. The only alarm bell for me was the coolant level in expansion tank was right down, barely any fluid evident when cold. This suggests lack of care and certainly either a leak somewhere or early sign of internal issues. No sign of mayonaise on the dipstick however. This car has a sale already agreed but if it fell through i'd be tempted to have a second look. High miles dont put me off as long as there is good history.

Any views / comments welcome.

The search continues !!!!

sulzeruk · Jun 17, 2012

Dave, the coolant tanks are prone to stress or heat cracking so could be as simple as that. Most (if not all) cars will have had the tank changed at some point.
The 3.4 80k Carrera would be a good one to get if you can do a bit yourself. New exhaust boxes can be picked up for about £400 if you know where to look, whats in a full service if you can DIY it. £700 for a set of tyres of reasonable quality. I would go in with a bid, the guy can only say no or haggle, something that people seem to have lost the ability to do nowadays!!!!
I bought my 996 with a blown engine at 134,000 miles for 3 grand. I am doing the engine rebuild myself and have spent about 6 grand on that although most of the internals will be new, rods, all new valves, tappets, chans, tensioners, etc. The car is also getting a thorough going over so all the suspension will be removed, some new wheel bearinsg (it is a C4 so worth doing at that miles in my eyes) All the rads are out at the moment for a bit of a clean and paint. Will be a nicely sorted car when done and worth spending the money on in my eyes.
Alasdair

bigfella70 · Jun 17, 2012

Hi Alasdair

The 80k car has passed from the private owner to a dealer. Nice chap however he will want his return out of the deal and there's a fair amount of expense to go into it. Had I caught the car with the private owner then I would have gone ahead and haggled - I bet the car could have been bought bewteen 8 to 9 k bearing in mind what needed doing.

I'm happy DIY wise with basic servicing, brakes etc but havent got the time or your expertise in terms of a full rebuild. I really like your method of getting into a 996 though - if I came accross one like you have, i'd buy it then hand over to Hartech for a full rebuild and upgrade for peace of mind - I dont think there is any better way into a 996 than yours !!

sulzeruk · Jun 17, 2012

Dave, I had been considering one for a while but just loathed to pay money for a car that may need another few grand put into it and you would never know when it was going to go. Most cars will fail at some point and the mileage never goes down with use. I would rather pay little for a car and do the work myself and add value to the car. My budget was a bit limited as well at the time. The car was 50 yards away from my own industrial unit so a bit of a score that way.
The engine work will include:
New genuine con rod set (away being balanced at the mo)
All new valves (all exhust valves turned out to be bent very slightly so someone has obviously had a small overrev or incorrect cam timing adjustment)
All new genuine Porsche gaskets and seals
All new head studs, casing studs, etc.
All new tensioner guides, chains, Vario cam pads and new solenoids.
All new main and big end bearings
All new oil pick up pipes and breathers in the sump
New AOS
New water pump
New fuel injectors
All new hydraulic tappets
Had block and head faces machined.
I have also had the Hartech liner mods done as well which entails them rerounding the bores and putting in support rings. they also modify the cooling passages as well.
The crank, front pulley and clutch have been dynamically balanced as well.
Should be a nice engine when built when I get the time. I also purchased the special tools for the rebuild as well.
Alasdair

bigfella70 · Jun 17, 2012

Sounds great and what peace of mind you'll have with the upgrades.

This seems to be the way to go. I wonder how to go about sourcing a car similar to yours, I wonder if Hartech have any contacts with owners or wheter its just a case of waiting for one to be advertised......

sulzeruk · Jun 17, 2012

Keep an eye out on Gumtree, the owners club forums, Ebay, etc. Ebay seems to be the place where some come up but they go for strong money to the breakers. A bust engine will still go for £1500 for parts.
Alasdair