New Turbo Owner, happy but some work to do, suggestions

[diabloam]

Hi all

Got a 944 Turbo short while ago which is superficially mint (low proven miles, full specialist service history and 7k in work over its years) but has a couple of issues which allowed me to get pile of money off. Thought i would post on here see what kinda advice. The car is an 86' 944 Turbo so is fairly old but been obvioulsy well looked after.

The major issue was the sills, which arent too clever. One is already holed and other aint too far away. I am a good mig welder, having been working on cars since wee lad so just looking for tips. Should I patch, get repair panels I seen on web, fabricate my own or get genuine porsche ones. Are the outer sills structural or just the inner ones (and if outers are bad, can I expect a horror show when I cut the outers off). Also, what in terms of combustables are in there, i.e wax, zeibart, no fuel lines I hope. Anybody have experience of doing 944 sills, your advice before I start would be appreciated and most welcome.

Now for small issues.
1. Water seems to collect in rear passenger footwell, whats the usual culprit and fix
2. On cold start, there is slight light whine from front for a short while, although it dissappears fairly soon. Belts were all done 3k ago, water pump 10k (3years ago). Sometimes get a squell from belt when starting on wet days with loads of electrics on or having ploughed through a puddle, although again only when engine is cold. Is it safe to assume, these two issues are same and tightening or replacing alternator drive belt will sort out.
3. Vibration in car at idle, is this definetly the engine mounts, what they like to change?
4 Clonking from driver front ball joint, found play when I checked. Its an 86 model year, with ball joint built into alloy wishbone. Do I have to buy complete wishbone or can I use that rebuild kit I have seen about (think it was porscheshopuk or somewhere). Are they awkward to fit and what is the final result like. Or should I stop being tight and buy new wishbone (they well pricy as I am sure you all know)

Further to this, mine is small turbo 220bhp model. I fancy little more (approaching 300bhp) whats everybodys experience of tuning to that level on these. Looked at promax stage 2. Anybody got this, what like, happy? any recommendations.

Also whats everyones opinion on best suspension setup for road in terms of springs and dampners. I dont need crazy stiff but uprated road probably be best. Bilstein, KW, Spax, Eibach etc what the owners best choice.

Other than that car is great, wish to do these jobs to make it perfect as rest of car is great and I love the drive and pace. Really sorry for long post, but 944 owners are the best people to ask, really appreciate any advice etc on any or all of these things. Like to research these thing totally before plowing in. I work offshore so get couple of weeks off at a time, so wish to blitz everything when i get back onshore. Am delighted with my new motor, thanks again everybody for any help given and again sorry for long post

 

[morris944s2john]

Sills- It depends how bad they are - I repaired the sills on my S2 by cutting out the rot and welding in a few plates (butt welded), but there were only a few small holes and the rest of the sill was sound on each side- the damage was around the seam where rear 1/4 joins sill.

I also stripped the sills back, zinc primed, skim of filler on the welded areas (on reflection, I would now lead load the area), re-stone chipped, primed and sprayed the sills in cellulose- got a good colour match. I did grind the welds smooth before zinc priming and skim filling, but from certain angles, if you look closely, its evident the sills were repaired, but I can live with it for now.

If you want a perfect job, however, then replacement sills are the way to go. I consider the work I did a temporary fix and will fit full replacements in the future when I can afford to take the car off the road for an extended period. (and either find reasonable priced panels or make my own.

As for what is inside the sills- not much in mine apart from surface rust on the pieces I cut out and a thin wax layer on the non rusted parts- remove this with thinners/rag once you've cut the rust out. No pipes or lines. I would remove the carpets near to where you are welding as a precaution and obviously mask off the door/ rear 1/4 glass to avoid it getting weld pock marked.

 

[Diver944]

Welcome onboard Diablo []

Rusty sills is one of the major problems starting to affect our cars now and can be costly to fix properly as the rust normally starts from inside out. The sill itself is about £130 for a new galvanised part from the dealer and is not structural. The inner sill is and if you have a huge hole in your outer then you 'may' have a nasty surprise []. The inner will have surface rust at the very least so make sure you treat that. The bottoms of the front and rear wing are not a replaceabke part unless you change the whole panel so if you have rust there, the best you an do is patch it up with a repair panel.

Other issues:

1.Rear footwell - check the sunroof drains aren't blocked or disconnected behind the c-pillar trim
2.Slight whine - it is normal to hear the ABS pump for a few seconds after starting. If the belts are older than 3 years REGARDLESS OF MILEAGE, then change them asap, especially as your car obviosuly has not been used much. Low mileage, or little use can be a nightmare in these cars
3.Vibration at idle (+/- 850rpm) is usually mounts, vibration at around 3000rpm is usually balancer shaft belts
4.Self rebuilds of balljoint can be done. Properly rebuilt wishbones from www.hartech.org.uk cost £150

The maximum power from the smaller K26/6 turbo is going to be around the 280bhp/310lbft whatever you do. I had similar parts as the Promax L2 kit and was very happy, but before ou start to modify you need to ensure your engine is sound, head gasket is fine and you have no boost leaks.

Best suspsension is currently without doubt the KW V3. It is firm on cornering but clever valving makes it more supple over poor surfaces then the Porsche M030 system.

If you do some searches on all the above topics you will find much more detialed responses to help you out

 

[colinbythesea]

I have always had to use the experts to repair sills (bodywork is not a strength) and on a 924 I once had it was bad when they got inside but it was fixed by a real craftsman, beautiful job.

I Have replaced engine mounts on my last 944. It is done from underneath. You have to raise the engine a bit and drop the crossmember down. If I remember right I supported the engine and undid the crossmember bolts one by one but screwing each back 2 turns. Then the final 2 came out and the crossmember was supported but ready to bolt up without the greif of relocating it. It is a job of many jacks and can be fiddly to get the mount bolts out.

The difference was enormous whilst idling and running even though the old mounts didn't look much different from the new ones. Driving was very smooth. I would recommend any 944 owner changes the mounts, it is a job on the list when I get my next one.

 

[diabloam]

This is good stuff guys. The sills are not terrible, I took it to my local garage to look at it on the pit and mot tester said he would probably let it through with a skim of filler on the hole (hmm?). But am quite fussy as this is the only thing that lets the car down as its is imaculate otherwise, including underneath, where I can look at boxy section bit at back of sill which is mint (why they rust on outer sill, even if galvanised). There is a little bit of bubbling on bottom of one wing but reckon should be able to catch it before it goes too bad.

So recommendation is to get a new wishbone from hartech rather than rebuild myself, might be worthwhile cause last dated reciept i got with the car was new NS wishbone which was fitted about four months ago for circa £300. Is it worth getting uprated bushes while I am doing front end?. Also where cheapest or best to get good quality or OE engine mounts, do eurocarparts stock much or need to go to specialist like hartech?

280bhp would be fine (want to keep up with my pals stage 1 sapphire cossie) reckon its about 280 or so. Might just go with promaxsatge1 the now, till I get other areas sorted, they on about 35bhp extra, which would bring me in line with the 944 Turbo S, anybody got this?

As a further question, what oil everybody using, mine has a mobil 1 oil log book fully stamped, but I am slightly of the opinion that fully synthetic is not always the best choice for older engines. I bought a 25 litre drum of duckhams semi-synth 10W40W, which I use in my Clio 16v and an old Range Rover I use as a workhorse. Was going to put that in, or should I keep it on diet it is used to and carry on with fully synthetic? Whats best grade, or what does everybody recommend, if I recall correctly the right grade is 10W40W, dont wnat to go to a 5W cause feel its maybe a little thin, although this is a more common grade for fully synthetic etc.

Anyway, great forum, will defo be regular visitor here, keep posting. Is it worth documenting and taking photos of doing sills for other forum users reference. Anyway any other opinion please post, like to read all inputs before I start on these jobs, thanks everybody

 

[Suffolk944]

Couple of us here have got the level 2 kit. Am very happy with mine, I have an early turbo and at the last "rollers of truth" dyno day she made 274 bhp. Another made 274.7 (am still bitter and twisted about that !) It will make your 944 much quicker and nicer to drive as its not just the extra power but the reduced lag which is equally welcome.

 

[diabloam]

274bhp sounds great, which of you fitted this yourselves, any problems, take there is a huge difference in the drive as mine feels great as standard, love it when see 0.8bar and off she goes, am I right in assuming it be best to get an air/fuel ratio guage and a boost guage (heard the stnadard one is a bit vague).

 

[sawood12]

Welcome to the mad house!!

Sounds like you've got a bit of a project on there but nothing too major from your description. As Paul has said Sills are a bit of a weak point. My personal view and preference would be to replace with OEM panels. Costs more but you get a proper job good for another 20yrs. A patch repair would get you a few years so it depends on your plans for the car. If you are planning on keeping her for a short time then maybe a patch repair is the most cost effective way for you (and pass the problem onto the next owner).

In terms of power upgrades i've got the Promax L2 and got 275bhp at a recent rolling road day. You'll prbably get a bit more with the bigger turbo. Not sure what a level 1 would get you, probably not far off your target.

The issue about synthetic vs semi synth vs mineral is a moot issue. It makes no difference ultimately so I wouldn't get too hung up about it. I would say that don't bother with semi synths (pointless marketting excersise) and if you go with mineral as long as you change the oil frequently it wont really matter. Again my philosophy with this one is to go for a good quality fully synth and do the job properly. Fully synth will last longer amidst the higher temps the turbo generates and will resist breakdown due to contamination of the products of combustion and petrol. Plenty of us are using fully synths in turbo and N/A cars with no probs at all - it is a myth about old engines not getting on with fully synths - just the opposite. I personally use Silkolene pro S. It's not the cheapest, but as good a quality oil as you can buy.

Regarding uprating the bushes. It ultimately depends upon what you want in terms of harshness of ride, but it is definately worth uprating your castor bushes (the rear bushes on the front wishbone) with 968 ones. These cost about 70 quid from the OPC. I've got the KW suspension with 968 castor bushes and standard bushes in all other locations and to be honsest there is no need for stiffer bushes unless it is going to spend most of its time on track. I'd uprate your suspension and castor bushes first then see what you think. You can alway upgrade bushes at a later stage if you want more.

Also, not wanting to potentially teach granny to suck eggs (don't know your car history), but if this is your first RWD car - especially if it is your first RWD '80's turbocharged car then i'd be very very carefull for the first few months. These things can have frisky back ends (no traction control here) and they have caught out many an unwary driver and there does seem to be a period in the first few months of ownership where there seems to be a much higher risk of stacking your car into the nearest ditch. I don't want to scare you, but just take it gingerly for a few months especially in this wintery weather. I'd hate to see you post a thread telling us you'd just put the car in a ditch.

 

[diabloam]

Thats cool, had a few RWD drives when I was young (2.0 Cortina, good sidyways), although nothing with this amount of go, heres pic of new baby.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Nice mirrors! [8D][8D]

 

[George Elliott]

Very nice, lovely unusual '86 colour. My exp of 220's v's 250's is the 220 engine is sweeter, and I am told it may be forged rods plus immense attn to detail in early turbo production.

Take a look at the sills before you think about ordering new ones, they only run the length of the door, then you need a quarter panel. Mostly they go at the join as we read above. Mine did this, and I migged in a new section and seamed up the factory join despite my love of originality. I dont think you need sills, there are many issues with breaking so many spots and migging in new sills which later causes corrosion. I speak from exp of OPC repair work.

Cortina, that was a good school [8|]

Scotts right though, these things were designed for a driver with PASM in their ankles and elbows.
Good luck

George

944t
964

 

[Guest]

Only buy genuine engine mounts. It can get confusing with OE /OEM etc.
Don't buy the repros they vibrate like mad!

 

[diabloam]

prob is i am offshore the now and wanted to order off internet so they be waiting for me to fit when get back onshore, thinking of ordering ball joint repair kit and engine mount from porscheshop uk before i get off, what everybodys experience of these, cheers