Newbie question: what part number / where to get brake pads?

[jimmyslr]

Need to stock up on pads after some fun and games on track... Anyway, few beginner questions that I am sure many can answer:

1 - I was running pagid rs-4s when the car arrived and changed to OEM Textars by necessity today. What do people recommend as "best" pad? Very subjective I know, but parameters are: good on track, decent life, 50:50 road/track, not too fussed over cost

2 - What are part numbers for above?

3 - From whom for good price / service?

Thanks

James

3 -

 

[tim court]

Pagids are the way to go in my opinion. With their progressive range of compounds you can work your way up their range till you find one that suits....

Try PERFORMANCE BRAKING LTD.
Singleton Court Business Centre, Wonastow Road, Monmouth, Monmouthshire, NP25 5JA, UK. Tel: +44 (0)1600-713117 Fax: +44 (0)1600-772561 Contact: John Freeth Email: Sales@performance-braking.co.uk

John is an encyclopedia of info and advice and a genuine nice bloke. They are cheaper than anywhere else I've managed to find - postage is cheap and quick as well.

I dont quite understand your ref to RS4's as I don't think there are RS4's. I have Blues (RS4-2's) all round at the moment and they are, as far as I know, reccomended as a good compromise between road and track but they do squeal a bit on the road..... (just like the girlfriend). At Donnington last week they held up well, bit spongy pedal feel but that would be the ATE Sooper Blooo getting a tad hot[][].

 

[SimonExtreme]

Firstly, welcome!

Your question isn't an easy one to answer because, as you suggest, brake pads are a very personal thing and very subjective. I did a lot of research into pads and if you look back through here you will find my threads on this. However, choosing a pad is about comprimises and therefore it depends o what you use the car for and how acceptable the "comprimises" are.

At the risk of teaching my grandmother.....etc, the general rule is the better the stopping power the quicker they wear and the quicker they wear the disks. Considering the cost of disks is reasonable (fronts about £120) and the fact I don't do high milage, I am not concerned about wear. However, even if you dismiss wear as an issue, the thing that differs between people is how much squeal they will put up with. I don't mind some but others hate it with a passion.

If you are prepared for some squeal, then I believe the Pagid RS15 (grey) are the best you can get. They outperform all other Pagid pads even when they are cold and when they are warmed up.......OMG!! I don't think they squeal much worse than RS4-2's.

As for their overall performance, they rate as high as any on the market. My brother uses this compound on his Caterham Superlight in which he has just come (at least) second in class in the national sprint series he competes in and he says that one thing that has helped him this year is the change of pad because they work so well from cold.

 

[jimmyslr]

I run Pagid blacks in my Caterham. Very good they are too. I think the pads I took out of the RS yesterday are "oranges" and they did squeal, but that's fine by me. It's ultmate stopping I am keen on.

Other sources are pointing me towards the latest compund yellow (rs29?), which I think I will try.

 

[SimonExtreme]

If you are prepared to put up with a little squeal, go for the RS15's. The yellow's, which are the RS19, are not in the same class.

In terms of performance, here is the comparison and I think you can see, its a no brainer! As you can see, the RS15's are better cold than the best of the RS19's

Friction @
cold
100celcius
300 celcius
Max
Working temp
Max temp

RS15

0.50
0.54
0.57
0.62 @ 600ºC
400-800ºC
900ºC

And RS19 (yellow)

0.4
0.43
0.47
0.49 @ 550ºC
400-700ºC
750ºC


Here is some more detail on the RS15

"The newest material, a development of RS-14 which combines a 20 percent higher friction level with an improved initial bite. RS-15 has a very good life and exceptional release characteristics. It is also very easily bedded in comparison to it's competitors. Suitable for Touring Car, GT and other applications requiring very high levels of friction and high temperature stability."

 

[tim court]

The RS 15's are the Grey - I had heard that these give excessive disc wear compared to the yellows.

You really should talk to someone who has tried a variety and has hands on experience.

Vic, Doc, IMOM, Where are you??? Probably lurking on Pistonheads....

 

[SimonExtreme]

Tim

You are right that the grey's do wear more than the yellow's and if you read my first post, you will see I have discussed this and given the cost of the disks. James also said he wasn't too fussed over cost and I think that from my experieneces with 2 cars running the grey, this really isn't an issue.

As for speaking to somebody who has had hands on experience and has tried a variety of pads, that is why I have posted. I have used most of the Pagid range on both road and track cars and on many different makes of car. I ahve also done signifcant miles and some hard driving on the greys on my RS so feel well qualified to comment.

When looking at the key factors used in choosing a pad, the greys stack up well.

1. They have the best friction coefficient of all Pagid pads. Only the DS3000 pads are better and that is only when cold but they squeal worse than any other pad!

2. Do they give good brake modulation and the answer is yes, as good as most performance pads and there is no sudden grappiness or late release.Modulation isn't as good as, for instance, Pagid blues which arepopular in rally situations where modulation is a big issue due to different surfaces that mean your really need to "feel" your way with your braking or you will too easily lock up.

3. Do they unbalance the car and here the answer is no. In fact, I think they balance the car better than OEM pads and they leave the car feeling very stable and set up.

4. Are they too noisy? This is subjective and depends on what you find acceptable but they are no worse than most other Pagid pads and better than some.

5. Longevity of pad and disk. Again this depends on what you personally believe is acceptable. Ultimately, you get what you pay for but as a % of running costs, replacing disks is not expensive.

Overall, I personally find little reason to use any other pad in the Porsche. Changing to them was like changing the whole brake system which is something I know people have done.

 

[tim court]

Simon,

Am I right in thinking that the Greys are the new generation formulation non-carbon based pads??? i.e. no more dirty black nasty brake dust?? What's your experience here??

 

[SimonExtreme]

Tim

Yes, they are ceramic (as are the yellows) and until you mentioned it, I hadn't even considered the brake dust issue. On reflection, and having just run out to look at my sad, neglected and dirty car, I can honestly say they are a vast improvement. I had forgotten just how bad the old carbon based pads were. Carbon pad dust actually ruined a set of very expensive rims on an Evo I had some years ago! I had forgotten the "joys" of cleaning wheels. Only a few weeks ago I was tiding my car care stuff and found the wheel cleaners I used to use and had thought that it must have been the finish on the wheels that meant I didn't need to use them any more. The ceramic pads are obviously the real reason.

 

[jimmyslr]

I cannot say my ceramic based blacks were easy on my caterham wheels. They are irrecoverable and will need full refurb now. The black brake dust is evil. Not helped by my tardy cleaning regime. I am more a driver than a polisher (runs for cover).

 

[SimonExtreme]

James

I am suprised at what you say about the ceramic blacks because I was chatting to a friend about this tonight and he said he ran those pads on his Evo and had noticed they were less dirty than the blues he had previously run. I hope you aren't accidently runnning carbon blacks RS7's although I doubt you can get them the right size for the Caterham.

I know what you mean about being a driver rather than a polisher which is why I was able to check my wheels to see what the deposits were like. 1000 miles since I last cleaned the car although if its very good, it might get some TLC this weekend.