Newbie with an update!

[John H]

Cliff, Hi there, we had started a discussion on the other forum, but sadly it got lost due to other issues. As regards the issue about non UK cars, I kinda sympathise with the writer of this email, in that what they say is no doubt true. The truth is though that the trade does not like anything other than UK cars (as they say) and you will pay the price for that if you sell early. The one really good point in all of this is that the longer you keep it, the less it matters, so to some degree I would say that how long you are planning to keep the car is very significant in your decision. I guess you pays your money and you takes your chance! JH

 

[ceejbee]

I guess those words are very true! It also is a little like - how long is a piece of string' when it comes to how long will I keep the car? Looking at my history the longest I have kept a car was around 4 years - shortest possibly 10 months. It depends on how it feels, how it delivers, what it is like to live with and of course what else may come out to tempt me to change. I appreciate your reply. What is your Cayman like - is there anything about your model or spec that you would change if you could? Cliff

 

[Dylan1]

if you sell at 4yrs or les you will lose 10%on selling vs a uk car so depends on what you are after-currently depreciation ios so steep 10%is prob neither here nor there!![]

 

[ceejbee]

Hi everyone, I am after your thoughts.....

I am considering getting a Cayman and am fairly clear on the spec etc I want so have been trawling various internet sites and calling dealers trying to source one.

In my research I have found a company that supply new Porsches but they are UK spec imports. Here is a snippet from an email they sent me explaining their service....sorry it is quite lengthy but I wanted you to read what I have been given

"All the Porsche cars are made in the same factories for the whole of the world, they make cars for both the RHD markets and also the LHD markets, each car that is produced for whichever market is issued a country code (sometimes known as a C code), forgetting the LHD cars (which are generally not of interest to UK residents) the cars made for RHD drive markets generally fall into one of 2 groups, C16 and C98. C16 is a car that is made for the UK market and is the code that you would get if you bought a new car from a main dealership in the UK. The other main RHD country code is C98 and those cars are made for the Mediterranean region (namely Malta, Gibraltar and Cyprus) these cars are in fact 100% identical to the C16 cars and have no differences in the car literally the only difference is the country code, having said that the UK main dealer network has done a very thorough job at poisioning people against C98 cars, primarily by discriminating (unfairly in my opinion) against them in terms of value at the time of trade in, unfortunatley they even resort to untruths about the car to justify reduced offers, as a result people are generally put off purchasing a C98 car. Having said that and assuming that you went ahead and purchased a C16 car either from us or from a main dealership, I can pretty well guarantee you that when it comes to part exchange and the non C16 country code option to the dealer will not be on the table as a reason to give a low offer, it will be 'there's a new model out, we have too many in stock, wrong colour, no navigation etc etc', you probably know how it works. One thing to mention is that the longer you keep the car and the older it is, if there is a differential in used values it disappears over time, for instance if a UK supplied car and an EU supplied car (whether C16 or C98) are all 5 years old they will all be worth the same. In response to your question about the warranty period, Porsche are unique in that there is only one warranty in existence and that is a 2 year worldwide (as opposed to Europewide). The warranty is not like a VW, Audi, BMW, Merc where the UK warranty is 3 years and the warranty on an EU supplied is 2 years. I must at this point mention that some unscrupulous vendors sell cars from other RHD markets like Australia/New Zealand/Indis/Malaysia etc etc, these cars are not the same as the C16 C98 cars, they have some subtle differences eg a kph speedo, different emissions, alarm systems etc."

So my question is - would you go down this route if you could save 10 - 12% on RRP dealer prices?

I welcome any thoughts / advice from you! I hope this helps in my first steps into Porsche ownership.

Many thanks

Cliff

 

[John H]

Cliff, I bought mine new, with a view to keeping it for 10 years or more (whether or not that happens remains to be seen) so I took the view that I would buy exactly what suited me, and to hell with conventional wisdom, mush of which is perpetrated by the dealers for their own benefit. I therefore ordered the car virtually bog standard, with the only options being cruise, heated seats and badge delete. By going for the 2.7 with 5 speed box, it was the only option which kept the car out of the £400 per year tax band, a point which will get more useful as they continue to hike the top rate. I don't like this craze for ever bigger wheels, it can make the car look like a cartoon if you overdo it, and I like the look of the 17" wheels. As the car has a sizeable appetite for tyres, the 17" tyres are cheaper, and I prefer the handling with less grip anyway as the steering has more feel. Neither do I like leather to sit on, so the Alcantara seats were almost a bonus for me, and the standard seats are plenty good enough. Noteworthy that you have to go all the way to a GT3 to get Alcantra as standard! The standard radio/CD player is rubbish, and the upgrades are none too hot either, and ludicrously expensive, so I just listen to the engine instead. £100's of pounds for metallic paint? ... I think not, Guards Red looks just fine to me. In short I wanted the car ... not the endless toys and upgrades, and besides the Cayman feels better to me as a simple light car, more in keeping with how Porsches used to be before they became luxury jewellery. Mistakes? If I was ordering again I would go for the climate control (which of course should be standard anyway) as the manual system is a bit of a fag to use. The car is a bit too quiet, so I might consider the sports exhaust (I am distrustful of most aftermarket ones). Other than that the car is a joy to own and use. It is by some margin the best car I have ever owned, and the best Porsche too (Ipreviously had a 964 and a 968). I drove it back to back with a pals new 997 C2, and we both concluded it had by far the better road feel, if not perhaps as much grunt. Speaking of which, the 2.7 has more than enough pace for todays road conditions, and regularly gives me over 30mpg in normal use. Even the Cayman is not perfect, nothing is, but even if money was not an issue, I simply cannot think of another car available today that I would replace it with. Nuff said really! [] John H

 

[ceejbee]

Thanks John H - for your reply and your honesty. The used car option I have my eye on ticks all of the wants I had around spec plus it gives me xenons, pcm and telephone module (not that I think either will get loads of use - plus I have read about the update costs etc of the nav system) and the fully auto climate - whihc I note you would now have opted for so I am glad it has that. Perhaps another question - it is coming from an OPD but the mileage is 29k for a 2 year old (nearly to the day) car, full history etc and it will come with a 1 yr OPD warranty. Should I be alarmed about that sort of mileage? My personal ongoing mileage (6k a year) won't be huge so I can see it falling back in to the expected usage fairly (10k - 12k a year) quickly but still I think I should ask. Some schools of thought say that is has ust been run in........ The imported version doesn;t tick all the spec I want but is a brand new unregistered car..... I am not finding it that easy to make up my mind! Cliff

 

[John H]

My car has done exactly 20k miles in just short of 2 years, and has just had its first service, and yes it only just feels properly run in now. I also have another car which I use for daily use, so the fact that I have done 10k a year in my "fun" car speaks volumes about how much I enjoy it. 29k at 2 years is slightly high mileage, though nothing to worry about, but I'd use it as a lever to get the price down a bit. In these difficult times, even OPC's should be open to a bit of good old fashioned dealing. If not, threaten to take your money elsewhere!! The fact that it comes thro an OPC and has the extra years warranty should mean it is in top condition though. Happy dealing! []

 

[ceejbee]

I will post how I get on - should I get to the point of the purchase. Would welcome any other thoughts / bargaining tools etc Cliff

 

[Alan_Armstrong]

Cliff, Welcome to the forum and hopefully to Cayman ownership. My car is in daily use, but then I dont travel too far to work, so since March 06 I've clocked up 27,000 miles, but this includes a tour of Scotland, 2 trips to Champagne land in France, and a tour of Snowdonia earlier on this year. I agree with John re his remarks over knocking the 2nd hand price down on the 29K car....when I took my car into the OPC for the 20,000 mile service before the 2 years were up...eyebrows were raised...so definitely hammer them over the mileage...regardless of what you are going to do in the future. Just a couple of pointers...has this car got sports seats (more prominent bolster supports) and in leather??...carefully check drivers seat for wear on the outer bolster...also the seat airbag panel for chipping (from the seat buckle return). Also check the tyres...the rears definitely would have been changed by now...make sure same make front & rear. (there has been some problems in tyre supply) Happy hunting, and let us know how you get on.

 

[ceejbee]

Thanks for all your replies. I popped in to the OPD this morning and had my first test drive of the Cayman, had a mix of dual carriage way and then a cross country drive too. I actually tried the one with the 29k on the clock and it felt great. I kept referring to the high mileage of it and the sales person didn't really react. He is now going away 'to do some sums' and give me a cost to change.... It has standard seats so no probs with the bolsters. I found a few tiny blemishes on the paint work which I pointed out, new (or very close to it) Michelin tyres all round, the only thing really that showed was what looks like a sponge / sticky surround to the high mount brake light - it had peeled away - that would of course be sorted. I asked about when it was serviced - now this is a Sept 56 car with 29k on the clock. It was serviced by OPD at 20k about 9 months ago, therefore under the Porsche approved scheme it would not be serviced if I buy it, it will undergo a thorough check up though. I was concerned and asked about brake pads - I don;t really want to have to replace them within 6 - 12 months of ownership as I will be quite a low mileage driver. So, I am waiting to hear where we go from here. I will post agin when I have news. All in all though - very nice car indeed!

 

[ceejbee]

Well, I am now the proud owner of a Cayman - I am very pleased indeed!!!! Thanks for all your advice and am looking forward to joining in a bit more regularly and of course 1000's of happy motoring! Cliff []

 

[Alan_Armstrong]

Hello Cliff, Welcome to our world.....An assuming that you are already a member of PCGB..your avatar shows non member, but often it is that you need to activate your forum membership with club HQ....if this is the case..go to general discussion section and look for Mark Bennett's tips on resolving this. After that send me your email address and I will send you back a register form. Kind regards

 

[sniper]

ORIGINAL: John H Cliff, I bought mine new, with a view to keeping it for 10 years or more (whether or not that happens remains to be seen) so I took the view that I would buy exactly what suited me, and to hell with conventional wisdom, mush of which is perpetrated by the dealers for their own benefit. I therefore ordered the car virtually bog standard, with the only options being cruise, heated seats and badge delete. By going for the 2.7 with 5 speed box, it was the only option which kept the car out of the £400 per year tax band, a point which will get more useful as they continue to hike the top rate. I don't like this craze for ever bigger wheels, it can make the car look like a cartoon if you overdo it, and I like the look of the 17" wheels. As the car has a sizeable appetite for tyres, the 17" tyres are cheaper, and I prefer the handling with less grip anyway as the steering has more feel. Neither do I like leather to sit on, so the Alcantara seats were almost a bonus for me, and the standard seats are plenty good enough. Noteworthy that you have to go all the way to a GT3 to get Alcantra as standard! The standard radio/CD player is rubbish, and the upgrades are none too hot either, and ludicrously expensive, so I just listen to the engine instead. £100's of pounds for metallic paint? ... I think not, Guards Red looks just fine to me. In short I wanted the car ... not the endless toys and upgrades, and besides the Cayman feels better to me as a simple light car, more in keeping with how Porsches used to be before they became luxury jewellery. Mistakes? If I was ordering again I would go for the climate control (which of course should be standard anyway) as the manual system is a bit of a fag to use. The car is a bit too quiet, so I might consider the sports exhaust (I am distrustful of most aftermarket ones). Other than that the car is a joy to own and use. It is by some margin the best car I have ever owned, and the best Porsche too (Ipreviously had a 964 and a 968). I drove it back to back with a pals new 997 C2, and we both concluded it had by far the better road feel, if not perhaps as much grunt. Speaking of which, the 2.7 has more than enough pace for todays road conditions, and regularly gives me over 30mpg in normal use. Even the Cayman is not perfect, nothing is, but even if money was not an issue, I simply cannot think of another car available today that I would replace it with. Nuff said really! [] John H

I agree with all the above. I went from a 996 turbo to a cayman 2.7 and I have no regrets. Sure the cayman is no where near as quick but it is a better car to drive - the handling is more neutral and is far more predictable. I do a 110 mile commute each day and the cayman is very well suited - get 33mpg and it is very refined on the motorway. 245bhp is adequate for todays roads although it could do with a bit more torque. The only downside is the catastrophic drop in prices recently. Sniper

 

[Alan Woods]

I agree with all the above. I went from a 996 turbo to a cayman 2.7 and I have no regrets. Sure the cayman is no where near as quick but it is a better car to drive - the handling is more neutral and is far more predictable.

Sorry to hijack the thread a bit. Sniper I read your previous posts where you went from the 993TT to 996TT, I am still thinking of px/ing the Cayman S for a 993TT and as not many people people seem to have had both (although you went the other way) what are you feelings comparing the two, with the 993 I know I'm getting an aircooled engine, quirky ergonmonics, driver involvement, greater sense of occasion etc, but would I miss the comfort/balanced handling of the Cayman esp. on longer trips?

 

[Dylan1]

would I miss the comfort/balanced handling of the Cayman esp. on longer trips? my experience would agree with these thoughts-after 3hrs drive in a 993 i was uncomfortable(that was 10yrs ago,before my low back probs!)-in the cayman can manage 6hrs no probs

 

[berty987]

OPC prices are always significantly higher than private or non frasnchised dealers. If you are looking at buying nearly new , then the manufacturers warranty will cover the car wherever you buy it from. If the car is used, its unlikely a porsche agent will extend or give you a warranty until the existing manufacturers one has run out , so I don't see the benefit of paying extra for a Porsche agent. With credit cruch headlines , the modern 997 / 987 vehicles are dropping in value like a stone , mainly due to over supply. If you want a good investment buy a 993 , if you are looking for a bargain buy a Boxster or 996/7. The cayman falls in an uneasy region where its value should follow the boxster, but there was less of an over supply. Time will tell if the cayman values fall as low as the 987 boxster , but the 997 values are falling even quicker ! Personally I would buy private or non franchised and less than 2 years old. Sell after a year and PX for a cayman without IMS and RMS potential problems with the new gen engine..

 

[Alex Postan]

Dick Lovett wants to sell me a new Cayman and has indicated that my 3yr old 29500 mile Cayman S with all the right extras is worth only £20,000 as a trade in. Can't see the logic of buying new and I cannot make any kind of sense of the arithmetic. This has to be a great time to buy second hand for the fortunate.

 

[Dylan1]

that sounds about right alex!! a good reason for passing mine on to my son rather than let someone else benefit from the huge depreciation hit[]

 

[sniper]

ORIGINAL: Alan Woods

I agree with all the above. I went from a 996 turbo to a cayman 2.7 and I have no regrets. Sure the cayman is no where near as quick but it is a better car to drive - the handling is more neutral and is far more predictable.

Sorry to hijack the thread a bit. Sniper I read your previous posts where you went from the 993TT to 996TT, I am still thinking of px/ing the Cayman S for a 993TT and as not many people people seem to have had both (although you went the other way) what are you feelings comparing the two, with the 993 I know I'm getting an aircooled engine, quirky ergonmonics, driver involvement, greater sense of occasion etc, but would I miss the comfort/balanced handling of the Cayman esp. on longer trips? Hi, Sorry for late reply. The 993 turbo was a fantastic car - wish I never had sold it. It would also have depreciated very little. The 993 was noisy - particularly on the motorway but never uncomfortable. The ride quality was also hard. Depends on what your driving involves - if daily commute - particularly motorway - then I think you would miss the cayman - far more relaxing to drive. The 993TT also cost a fortune to run - 22mpg and services up to £4k! However, I still think it is one of the best cars porsche ever made. The 996TT was a dog by comparison - I think I had a lemon - constant irritating issues with build quality - the clutch was fragile, constant issues with oil leaks, the electrics constantly playing up, suspension failure, all the radiators started to leak. The car had done 70K when I sold it and was 5 years old - depreciated like a lead balloon too. The cayman is superb but I would have a 993TT again in its place at the drop of a hat. Sniper