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Oil Check!

NormalNorm

New member
Yes I know, I guess this is a question that has been asked by every 964 fresher!

Ive ran at least 1500 after collecting the car and it been just serviced. As you know, the day when its explained how to check the oil when collecting your new toy, everything from verbal advice on that day seemed vague due to the excitment.

Anyway, im sure the oil is low, how do I check? as when I start the car, the oil level isnt going to read anything until warmup. While the car is on the run, when warm, she still reads needle on the red, until you come to the traffic light and the needle moves to middle.

What is the correct reading, and on the dip stick, when is correct time to read it? After a run?

As its not a new modern car, it doesnt give you an accurate reading like on a modern Porsche on the computer. So im worried!
 
Norm,

Your description of the oil gauge movement is absolutely correct - about the middle is exactly where you want it. Oil hot, engine idling, level ground. Check the dipstick under the same conditions.

Regards

Dave
 
thanks Dave, your a star for the quick reply and the reasurance![:D]

So,that is a perfect level then, and what your saying is check the dipstick when the car is running hot? Obviously not check the dip when cold!

It was weird, cos for the worry, I forgot to check the oil gauge when I got home before switching her off. So what did I do! I started her backup, and the oil level gauge was red!greattttttt!

So whens the best time to check the oil again?car warm, then check dipstick, and what about on gauge?
 
Norm
As Dave said when your driving
While the car is on the run, when warm, she still reads needle on the red, until you come to the traffic light and the needle moves to middle.
this is exactly right.

Best time to check is when you return from a run, park up outside the house on a plevel surface and you should see the needle move up to middle which is perfect. You should then check your dipstick to verify that your needle is performing accurately, you will then learn to trust the needle reading on the gauge.

My nest advice is do not fill the oil up to maximum (needle also would go to max) as they have been known to blow back a bit
 
My understanding was that the car should be left running until it is hot enough that the oil thermostat has opened and oil has been diverted to the front oil cooler radiator - only then will you get the true reading from the dipstick. If I check mine hot without the thermostat open, then the oil level reads low on the dipstick and you might tempted to top it up, leading to overfilling.

Ready to be corrected![;)]
 
I'm not sure how you could do that!! The easy way to tell "when" to check is to watch the oil temperature gauge. When you start the car from cold you will see the oil temperature gradually rise as the engine warms up. It will typically rise to the second mark on the gauge over the course of 10-15 minutes driving (at no more tha 4K revs mind!). Soon after it hits that second mark you will see a VERY rapid decrease in the temperature such that the needle drops to the first mark - almost instantly. THAT is the point where the thermostat has opened and flooded the oil supply with new, cold oil from the cooler via the now open thermostat. From that point onwards the oil level readings are valid with the engine idling and on level ground. Bear in mind the thermal expansion of oil is considerable so the hotter the oil gets the higher the level gets. This is why it's recommended that the level gauge should show around the half way mark under normal conditions to allow room for expansion if the oil gets really hot.

Regards

Dave
 
ORIGINAL: Dave Wilkinson

I'm not sure how you could do that!! The easy way to tell "when" to check is to watch the oil temperature gauge. When you start the car from cold you will see the oil temperature gradually rise as the engine warms up. It will typically rise to the second mark on the gauge over the course of 10-15 minutes driving (at no more tha 4K revs mind!). Soon after it hits that second mark you will see a VERY rapid decrease in the temperature such that the needle drops to the first mark - almost instantly. THAT is the point where the thermostat has opened and flooded the oil supply with new, cold oil from the cooler via the now open thermostat. From that point onwards the oil level readings are valid with the engine idling and on level ground. Bear in mind the thermal expansion of oil is considerable so the hotter the oil gets the higher the level gets. This is why it's recommended that the level gauge should show around the half way mark under normal conditions to allow room for expansion if the oil gets really hot.

Regards

Dave

If you hold your hand under the vent in the undertray beneath the oil cooler rad, you will feel the heat - even the underneath of the sill panels feel warm as the hot oil flows along the pipes situated therein!

Mine does not get hot enough after a 40 mile drive for the thermostat to be open, as the oil is only around the first mark on the temp gauge - only by then leaving it idling (ie with reduced air cooling) does the oil get hot enough, after about 15 minutes of idling, for the stat to open to the front oil rad.
 
ORIGINAL: appletonn
Mine does not get hot enough after a 40 mile drive for the thermostat to be open, as the oil is only around the first mark on the temp gauge - only by then leaving it idling (ie with reduced air cooling) does the oil get hot enough, after about 15 minutes of idling, for the stat to open to the front oil rad.

Nick,

I find that really strange. Mine has always been as regular as clockwork, seeing that temp gauge dip from the 2nd to the 1st mark after about 10-15 minutes of driving. I can't imagine doing a 40 mile drive without seeing that drop. Are you sure you don't see that brief time when the temp gauge hits the second mark before dropping down??

Without doubt, leaving the engine idling for 15 minutes will get the oil hot, but IMHO, the thermostat should open LONG before that. It would be interesting to get some other observations from some other cars to see if there is any consistency.

Regards

Dave
 
ORIGINAL: Dave Wilkinson

ORIGINAL: appletonn
Mine does not get hot enough after a 40 mile drive for the thermostat to be open, as the oil is only around the first mark on the temp gauge - only by then leaving it idling (ie with reduced air cooling) does the oil get hot enough, after about 15 minutes of idling, for the stat to open to the front oil rad.

Nick,

I find that really strange. Mine has always been as regular as clockwork, seeing that temp gauge dip from the 2nd to the 1st mark after about 10-15 minutes of driving. I can't imagine doing a 40 mile drive without seeing that drop. Are you sure you don't see that brief time when the temp gauge hits the second mark before dropping down??

Without doubt, leaving the engine idling for 15 minutes will get the oil hot, but IMHO, the thermostat should open LONG before that. It would be interesting to get some other observations from some other cars to see if there is any consistency.

Regards

Dave

Dave, the guys at Unit 11 in Warrington often have to cover the rear of the cars with blankets in order to get the cars hot enough to get the stat to open.

If I drive off from cold for 30-40 miles, the gauge does not get much above the first mark - engine is freshly rebuilt and has a new oil cooler too.

I didn't think that the stat opened in normal driving as its only when the oil gets overly hot that it dumps the hot oil to the cooler - if the oil is within acceptable temp range, then there is no need for the cooler to be included in the loop, as the engine could then run too cool as opposed to too hot?

I think that is why there are so many tales of people overfilling their cars with oil on Rennlist, as they are not waiting long enough for the stat to open before checking the stick.
 
I concur with my son-I also leave the engine running & idling after a reasonable distance drive,say 10/15 mins then use the dipstick twisted through 180 degs so that the oil doesn't get "wiped" by the dipstick tube & give false reading-with new clean oil it smears easily-I have several go's using kitchen towel to wipe the stick (& now I'm so old ,the reading glasses)-then if you add a little oil you can normally see the oil line advance up the stick.

In a trip to Oulton Park,yesterday, with Nick,my oil level gauge didn't budge off the bottom mark whenever we had to stop at lights etc-I don't have the bottom cover on.
 
Dave

Mine behaves exactly as you describe and I've always understood this to be the normal / correct sequence.

Regards
James

ORIGINAL: Dave Wilkinson

ORIGINAL: appletonn
Mine does not get hot enough after a 40 mile drive for the thermostat to be open, as the oil is only around the first mark on the temp gauge - only by then leaving it idling (ie with reduced air cooling) does the oil get hot enough, after about 15 minutes of idling, for the stat to open to the front oil rad.

Nick,

I find that really strange.  Mine has always been as regular as clockwork, seeing that temp gauge dip from the 2nd to the 1st mark after about 10-15 minutes of driving.  I can't imagine doing a 40 mile drive without seeing that drop.  Are you sure you don't see that brief time when the temp gauge hits the second mark before dropping down??

Without doubt, leaving the engine idling for 15 minutes will get the oil hot, but IMHO, the thermostat should open LONG before that.  It would be interesting to get some other observations from some other cars to see if there is any consistency.

Regards

Dave
 
My My! i leave you guys for 1 day and I see a debate, that will just confuse me more on how accurate I can read my oil.

Anyway, guys enough of this, please refer to my topic on 'More questions on running a 964' please as that is just as important![;)] thanks Dave, Nick, Dave, Nick, Dave, Nick[:D]
 
I drove my car to work yesterday via Motorway and B roads (definitely becoming hooked!) and saw the gauge move exactly as Dave suggested, dropping from the 2nd mark to halfway between the two after about 10 mins driving. However, when I arrived at work, 40 miles later, and checked to see if the front oil cooler was hot, it wasn't! On that evidence, the engine and oil was adequately cooled by the cool airflow and thus did not need the additional cooling from the front rad. If I had checked my oil at that point, I would have had a coronary as it would have appeared that I was running my nice new engine on no oil....!

Speaking to the guys at Unit 11, they tell me that the intial drop on the temp gauge is NOT the oil stat opening but rather the engine settling down to its normal operating temp. They told me that it is perfectly likely (especially in the UK climate) for the stat to remain closed even on a long motorway journey, as the engine and oil is cooled adequately by the high speed airflow around the engine.

The oil flows down the pipes to the front cooler, but until the stat opens, the cool oil does not flow back to the tank/engine.

The oil stat has to be open, with the oil circulating through the front cooler (feel the inner front wing and if warm, then stat is open) for the dipstick/level gauge to give an accurate reading.

If you check the level with the stat closed, you will get a false reading (ie low oil level) which could then lead to overfilling.
 
Just to add my tuppence, my oil temperature gauge reaches the second mark after 10-15 minutes of driving, drops quickly to just above the first mark, then builds back up to somewhere between the two marks, depending on ambient temperature / driving style, and generally doesn't move much thereafter. Once up to temperature, the inside of the front wing is slightly warmer, but not by much.
 
sounds about right for me also. It takes a hot day and no movement to get to the second mark, I think once in France it just went over. But very stable even then.
 
I don't know if this is relevent as no one yet has mentioned it, but what about the absence or existence of the engine skid plate.

I understand some remove this as it can make the engine run hot, and also weighs a lot and extends the service time.

Perhaps this might explain why some engines do not appear to get up to temperature, and why the garage you mentioned uses a blanket to keep the heat in?

If I'm talking nonsence just say so & I'll get me coat....
 
ORIGINAL: colin129

I don't know if this is relevent as no one yet has mentioned it, but what about the absence or existence of the engine skid plate.

I understand some remove this as it can make the engine run hot, and also weighs a lot and extends the service time.

Perhaps this might explain why some engines do not appear to get up to temperature, and why the garage you mentioned uses a blanket to keep the heat in?

If I'm talking nonsence just say so & I'll get me coat....

Mine doesn't have the undertray fitted - I always thought it more to do with drive by noise regs than cooling though.

I'd imagine it does have an effect on airflow and hence cooling though.
 

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