Oil consumption

[Hilux]

Just thought I`d share with you my experiences lately.

My 944 250 turbo has a front cam seal leak apparently. This means that it leaves a small 10p size drip after a run however it used to do about 200 miles and the bl**dy oil level light would come on requireing about 1/2 litre of oil. This was on Mobil 1

Since a service with JZM the oil useage seems to be less (300 miles ish before the light comes on) they used `Magnatec`

1) Anyone else have this sort of consumption (I know its exagerrated by the seal leak)
2) May I assume `Magnatec` is ok for the turbo cars?

 

[Hilux]

Hi Andrew

It doesnt smoke at all on start up, over run or hard acceleration. (not that I can tell anyway) and people that have followed me on runs have not commented (perhaps they are too polite [&:] )

There are loads of drips all over the flat floor cover under the engine and a small pool when stopped.

There is a little drip of water also but it uses no water, the oil filler cap is not emusified at all.

The `top up` of oil is a reasonable estimate (how much oil is required when the oil light level warning light comes on?)

Ironically I did an evening at Silverstone with a 100 mile journey on top and the light never came on [&:]

Its history shows an issue with the sump sealing (noted that a bolt was cross threaded/stripped at the front) but it is supposed to have been cured.

It gains immediate 5.0 oil pressure when used regularly (tappets are full) but it is tappetty for a couple of secs when left for a week or more. Oil pressure interestingly is now 5.0 when hot and pressing on, 4.0 when hot and cruising and now 2.5 - 3.0 when hot and idling. The Mobil 1 was 5.0, 4.0 but 3.0+ ironically when hot and idling.

Edited to say that there is no clutch judder at all so hopefully the rear seals are ok.

IMO the leak is from the front and is not power steering fluid as although the reservoir pipes are `wet` the fliud doesnt drop.

I am off on Thursday incidentally (funeral in the afternoon), could I bring it in early Thursday please. Its a really nice gesture which I appreciate very much particularly as I`m off to Holland in April with the local Porsche regional club.

Regards

Paul

 

[Diver944]

Hi Paul,

The topup level from min to max on the dipstick is 1.5 litres and I've found that the warning light tends to come on just before the minimum level. My own Turbo used to use about a litre of oil every 1500miles on the road. JZ Machtech have been filling mine twice a year with Castrol SLX 5w40 for the past 60,000 miles and 5 years.

Plenty of track use when in my ownership [8D], and it drops to a litre in 100 miles under those conditions.

 

[Hilux]

Right y`all,

I`ve done a bit more research................................

The topup level from min to max on the dipstick is 1.5 litres and I've found that the warning light tends to come on just before the minimum level

The light has just come on [] at 124550 miles, it was serviced at 124105 so thats 445 miles and the dipstick level is 1/3 down between hi and lo so thats about 1/2 litre as I thought especially if Paul`s 1.5 litre between levels is correct.

Therefore it is using about 1 litre per 1000 miles [&:] a bit excessive and is probably down to leakage (hopefully).

Andrew, I have to come from North Herts so I`ll try and get there as early as I can but I suggest with traffic etc it will definitely be before 9:00am. What do you think?

JZ Machtech have been filling mine twice a year with Castrol SLX 5w40 for the past 60,000 miles and 5 years.

So why are they filling mine with `Magnatec` I am concerned as its only a `cracked` mineral oil and not properly synthetic! On the other hand what oils were around when the car was first built?

 

[944turboS]

IIRC 1L/1000miles is at the top of the factory permissable consumption rates.

 

[sawood12]

I had what I thought was a pretty bad oil leak coming from the water/oil cooler matrix gasket which was loosing approx. 1ltr every 800ish miles and the underside of the engine was absolutely coated with the oil so i'd guess that if your oil usage is 100% down to an oil leak I'd guess the underside of your engine must be at least at mucky as mine was. However when I was trying to track down this leak I thought it was also coming from either the balance shaft seal or the cam seal but the oil was actually running down under the engine and dripping from the balance shaft housing, so appearances can be deceptive.

Since i've had it fixed i've also noticed a minor crank seal leak but so far i've not had to top up the oil level but after about 1,500 miles it is about halfway between the min and max level, in fact i've only just topped it back upto full so i;m not too concerned about it at the moment and will replace at the next cam belt replacement (or head gasket).

I use Silkoliene pro (5w40) as recommended by Oilman which is an Ester oil (and Porsche recommended) which means it's clingy like Magnatec and is a top quality fully synthetic oil. I see no reason not to use a fully synthetic oil and can't understand the arguments against - especially in turbo charged cars. It is more expensive but lets face it - your only talking about a tenner more per service. I personally wouldn't bother with Mobil 1 as it's not an Ester oil but it is a Porsche recommended oil so it must be good enough to use in Porsche's veiw. I suppose it all depends upon what you are using the car for.

 

[Hilux]

IIRC 1L/1000miles is at the top of the factory permissable consumption rates.

Hi Graeme

Good [8D] it looks like if I cure the leak it will be using less than the max oil loss allowed.

mind you I`ve read that oil can stuff the belts [&:] so i`ll have Andrew look at it and quote accordingly (please God the wife never finds out as I`ve agreed we are having an extension to the house this year so I told her the car wouldnt cost any money this year (not) [] )

 

[eastendr]

I've been using Magnetec in both 944's now for a couple of years.

Buby WUF (944S) uses virtually no oil - even during track days. WUF uses some, but it does get a hard life !

Rick

 

[Hilux]

An update

Met the lads at Promax on a cold and snowy day so thanks for the tea []

They lifted the car removed the underpan etc and had a good nose around with me in tow.

Conclusion is that the cam seals that wer supposed to be leaking as reported to me at a major service recently are not!!. The belts are dry with no oil leakage at the front at high level at all. Good news.

Bad news is that a v v reputable Porsche indy has charged the previous owner to rectify a stripped bolt/sump pan to block leak. This was NOT cheap. They botched it with some sort of sealer [][] which leaks oil (obviously)

Conclusion..............

Car is in fine fettle with all bits in good nick. No leaks anywhere apart from the sump front offside corner. I will be going to Holland with no issues other than this leak which is (for now) manageable.

They ran through the car with me and pointed out the front non jacking point has been pushed up (but not that the accelerator pedal is affected) and there is minor corrosion on the fuel pipes at that awkward spot behind a cross member in front of the gearbox. They appplied spray waxoil. (Thanks for this)

So I`m well chuffed as I seem to have bought a good `un (touch wood)

The set up at Promax is v v neat and their obvious enthusiasm and professional nature has ensured I will be taking the car back for it to be fixed etc.

Downside is that apparently a cam seal is easier to rectify than a new sump.....................c`est la vie[&:]..........better start saving.

Sorry everyone, edited to say that I`m angry that the 100 point inspection reprt at the last Porsche indy mentioned cam seals and NOT the sump. What does that tell you? If they had changed the seals it would still have leaked. I will be writing to them.

 

[sawood12]

I wouldn't be too harsh as oil leaks are very difficult to track down. I have at lest four or five service invoices in my cars history that all mention that they tried to find the leak but couldn't but suspected it might be from a certain place. In fact when I bought the car I took it to a couple of places and none of them could determine the source with any level of confidence. In the end it was spotted by my current indy becasue he had it for a couple of days and could really give it a good clean and had plenty of time to track the leak down. At least you know where it is now though.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: Hilux
Therefore it is using about 1 litre per 1000 miles [&:] a bit excessive and is probably down to leakage (hopefully).

Just to confirm what Graeme said, when I first got my car, it had a very high consumption (It turns out due to a knackered turbo). When I took it into the dealer to have a full service, I was told that 1litre per 1000 miles was around normal for the turbo model.

Obvoiusly if there are visible leaks though, then it should be sorted.

 

[Hilux]

I wouldn't be too harsh as oil leaks are very difficult to track down.

Not this one, to see the cam belt seals on the engine front you have to get past a big patch of goo on the sump corner with oil dripping around it [&o] when you get past it you then look up into the cam belt cover to see the cambelt seals which are dry.

It wasnt even noted on the report FFS. I am still v v annoyed.

 

[Diver944]

On a trackday this is very normal for our older turbochargers, most of the regulars on here will report oil consumption of 1 to 2 litres of oil on a trackday (depending on miles and right foot). Make sure you always have plenty of oil with you and when the car has cooled after EVERY session, check the level and top up to the Max.

There was a poll on Rennlist (started by Tony here) and virtually ever case of bearing failure was due to lower than maximum oil level and hard use on track.

In normal road use you will probably use a litre of oil every 1000-2000 miles. Make sure you use a FULLY synthetic and its not a thin 0W or 5W. Ideally you want a 10W40 or for very hard use a 15W50

 

[sawood12]

Paul - just a query, what's wrong with low cold viscosity oils (0w/5w)? Surely it only affect things when the engine is cold and warming up becasue at 100 degs a 5w40 oil is the same viscosity as a 10w40. I'm using 5w40 (synthetic) with no adverse effects or increased oil usage. My view is that you want to use as low a cold viscosity oil as you can to give the car the best cold start protection as we all know that virtually all engine wear occurs in the first 10 to 15mins of every journey so you want your oil to be as effective as possible from the moment you turn the engine over.

Andy - I think the exhausts are black and sooty. This was a surprise to me initially as I've always thought that the deposits on the inside of the exhaust should be a light/dark brown coating if your air/fuel ratio is set up well - just like spark plugs. It certailny has been on previous cars i've had, but apparently on our cars black and sooty is normal.

 

[Diver944]

Scott, there's no inherent problem with low cold viscosity oils (0w/5w) in our cars as long as your engine is still tight and the turbocharger seals are good. If you are using it with no problem in yours then it's a good sign that everything is still in good condition []

 

[Hilux]

Andy - I think the exhausts are black and sooty. This was a surprise to me initially as I've always thought that the deposits on the inside of the exhaust should be a light/dark brown coating if your air/fuel ratio is set up well - just like spark plugs. It certailny has been on previous cars i've had, but apparently on our cars black and sooty is normal.

With the old 4 star the exhausts were grey if the car was running well and sooty if it was running rich, with unleaded they are black to a greater or lesser extent, all cars not just ours. Spark plugs run super hot so the colour will be different.

 

[Andy97]

Thanks for the help - seems that I don't particularly have a problem which is good to know. I'll keep an eye on it, though.