OLd Problem Back OIL IN WATER

[richardjjs1]

Eversince I collected this car from Birmingham from the dealer (not Porsche) I have had a problem with traces of OIL in the Water
By traces I mean a few lumps of emulsified water in the header tank. Tiny emulsified traces in the Oil Filler which apparently is quite usual

Car 966 3.4 Auto was 96000 miles Excellent service history

The cat had work carried out on the gearbox (auto) which meant the Gearbox was removed but not the engine. last January/March.

Didnt really worry too much about the oil until when on Holiday in Coningsby with the visit of the Canadian Lancaster I notice serious oil in the water.

Took it to 911 Sport in Horncastle who diagnosed an Oil Cooler which was replaced without removing the engine at a cost of 200.00 for the unit and about 1000 to fit.

Since the we have done around 1200 miles and have still had oil residue in the header tank and have fully flushed the system 3 times.

Initially no loss of oil or problems with water in the oil.

I have been told it could take months to clear this residue.

Since Christmas the problem has returned. I always remove the oil on the surface of the header tank.

Checked the Oil and added a good 1 litre of oil. Ran down to Hereford and Back and had to remove quite a large amount of emulsified oil from the Header Tank.

REmoved this and topped up the system

On FRiday I went to Whitchurch about 15 miles from her and when I got back the next day removed 20 teaspoons of oil from the system and gave up (teaspoon was easiest way to get it out

I am hoping it is the same problem as this is covered under the guarantee ie Faulty oil cooler and or fitting'


It is about 160 miles to Horncastle from here. Should I expect them to collect it.

WHAT ELSE COULD IT BE (Head Gasket, Head) ?

I have been in discussions with 911Sport about the continued problem but can I have this done locally and expect them to pay if it is the fault

I cannot afford to pay for anything else till I get some money through in a couple of months.

Do I get the car to Porshe911.

I do not expect any problems with Porsche 911 the only problem is its so far away

Now done 105000 miles

Thanks

 

[Rodney Naghar]

Give Hartech a ring tomorrow morning, they will give you a better read on it.
I doubt it's the oil cooler. Sounds like 'D' chunk to me.

 

[Mike IRL]

Doubt if it's oil cooler either. I'd suspect deeper issue.

Prior to adding 1 litre of oil when was the last time you topped it up in terms of miles or kms?

Have you checked it since and how many miles or kms driven?

 

[richardjjs1]

Oil replaced prior to new Oil Cooler fitting. Asume it was topped up by 911 Sport

No top up required until trip to Hereford when I added more than a litre. This is when the warning bells sounded

Have done about 1500 miles since new oil cooler.


I must admit I first thought about D Chunk. Surely D Chunk would get blow back from piston and Water/Exhaust in oil.

But there is no rough running or WATER IN OIL it runs superbly no missing or back fires. Oil is very clean (Replaced just before trip to Coninsby)

But when the OIl Cooler was replaced It did immediately stop the Large Amount of Emulsified water in the header tank

They did suggest it would take months to get rid of all the oil as Oil floats and ends up in all the high places in the system

For about 3 months I did have these small amounts that I removed with kitchen towel.



Will obviously speak with Porsche911 first and then Hartech but they are talking about 4,500 plus VAT for an engine

The real problem is that so many 'specialists' really don't know what they are talking about and obviously D chunk is pretty terminal

Thanks for the feed back

 

[Rodney Naghar]

£44,500 plus Vat for a new engine?
If you divided by 10 you'd get a closer figure. I know another PCGB member who's Boxster engine died and he got a replacement for around that.

Have they checked the oil filter for bits of metal?

 

[Chris_in_the_UK]

The £1k you paid for the oil cooler fitting sounds very expensive TBH - was this the outfit that advised running low tyre pressures?

I suspect this will be a D chunk or a cracked head - personally I would get somebody else to give a second opinion before I did anything else.


Good luck.

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

An oil cooler is £173+VAT, and the 'book' time to change is 2.3 hours, plus coolant bleed time. £1000 labour seems somewhat expensive to me.

As has been said - get a second opinion, as there are a number of things it might be. I don't think I have ever heard of a faulty oil cooler - and it is unlikely lightning struck twice in the same place.

 

[Azyman]

When they replaced the oil cooler did they replace any of the pipe work?

The reason I ask is, we run a fleet or transits (I know they are not porsches) it was recomended that all feeder pipes are replaced and the system flushed. We chose the cheaper option to replace the oil cooler on one vehicle, about 4/5 weeks later the header tank was contaminated with oil. The ones we done the pipe work on have been fine since.

My partners oil cooler on here tt astra has done the same thing it's in for all the gearbox to be removed and all pipe work replaced and system flush

 

[richardjjs1]

When I arrived there they said they would have to remove the engine but ended up just dropping it. He is a proper POrsche specialist.

Interesting about the time Richard as it was only in for two days which included the engine cooling down and flush

Will check the Bill and get back

He did say it was known fault and Porsche Chester said Oil Coolers fail (Porsche Chester supply them with Parts)

How do I get a quote on this which is correct.

The interesting thing is that Before the first Oil Cooler was fitted I had a great deal of oil in the Header Tank.

On the trip to Lincoln, or while we where there, the header tank filled up with Oil.

Apart from residual amounts after the Oil Cooler was fitted it was OK (Just residual Amounts)

Then suddenly over the passed couple of days it filled up again.

Just seems very strange that ii seems to have gone the same way. Also high oil consumption around this figure.

After it was fitted I drove about 1200 miles and used very little oil and all of a sudden high consumption.


Does the D Failure make the car run badly as ive done 1500 and the engine sounds and run smoothly.

 

[Chris_in_the_UK]

It's not an engine out job.

The phrase 'engine out' is used all to frequently, sadly the reality is not quite that.

 

[richardjjs1]

They flushed the pipework but not as much as they would have liked as I had to stay locally. Finances are a bit short

When I got home I flushed it 3 times but the dealer did say it would take a lnog time. As you may know the pipework on a Porsche is huge.

With high spots that are virtually impossible to flush (They run from front to back with three Radiators at the Front)

So until I started using Oil this week and getting lots of oil in the header tank I was not that concerne.

JUst hoping its not the block.

 

[richardjjs1]

silly typo well spotted

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

ORIGINAL: richardjjs1

When I arrived there they said they would have to remove the engine but ended up just dropping it. He is a proper POrsche specialist.

Interesting about the time Richard as it was only in for two days which included the engine cooling down and flush

...........................

Well the workshop manual says you can change the oil cooler without even lowering the engine on its mounts - hence 2.3 hours.

Porsche book times are generally optimistic, so reckon on 3 to 3.5 hours at most.

 

[richardjjs1]

Thanks Richard

Makes you wonder if they read the manual

The engine is running really smoothly and ticks over really well. Acceleration and Performance great.

If I had a D Section failure surely this would effect something. AS far as I can see without dropping the oil it looks OK

Will speak with Horncastle Porsche specialist tomorrow see what he says

Its really strange that replacing the Oil Cooler SEEMED to cure this massive oil leak But I suppose by removing it and draining the water may have cleaned the system so it replacing the cooler APPEARED to have corrected the problem

When I phone Dave Griffiths Racing in Shrewsbury he did quote me 500.00 for the job (which goes along with your time better than theirs)

I did use my Credit card so maybe I can claim the money back.

Regards

Ricghardjjs

 

[richardjjs1]

Chris

Yes it Is the same guys but since I have lowered the pressures I have noticed no loss of performance but the tyre wear is much better (ie lasting longer) No change in Fuel consumption

Head is certainly a possibility - Can the heads be removed in situ !

Surely a D problem would effect the engine It running as well as always

Thanks

 

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Maybe not Richard, but if you have an accident and the Police check your tyre pressures and they are lower than the manufacturer specification then this will be against you and deemed a contributory factor.

Heads off is not really doable with the engine in - if it's a cracked liner (which can often end up being a D chunk as the cracks join up) you might not notice anything significant at all to start with other than oil in the water and increased use of coolant.

As regards the bill you paid, difficult without knowing what exactly they have put on the invoice but it sounds like you have paid way over the going rate for this job. Even if it took all day (8 hours) the bill is still excessive to me. I appreciate you rate them and believe you have had good advice and service, personally I would take my business elsewhere given what you have posted about this.

Hope you get to the bottom of it.

ORIGINAL: richardjjs1

Chris

Yes it Is the same guys but since I have lowered the pressures I have noticed no loss of performance but the tyre wear is much better (ie lasting longer) No change in Fuel consumption

Head is certainly a possibility - Can the heads be removed in situ !

Surely a D problem would effect the engine It running as well as always

Thanks

 

[richardjjs1]

[CHRIS Do you have an email address so I can chat outside of the Forum please

Would like to just point out that I am a very keen home mechanic and have rebuilt a number of cars. OLd Minis, Maxis, original quattros and have worked in a garage so I have a good working knowledge of the motor vehicle

When I bought the car it did have small amounts oil in the water which I reported to the seller.
But it also had a weird gearbox noise that he worked on and corrected (a low noise graunch mainly when it changed up at low speed from third)
This went to Porsche Solihull, Porsche Birmingham , Three Porsche Specialists and two Auto Gearbox Specialists (the car was away two months, )
by initially replacing the Viscous Coupling
and had the Auto gearbox Gearbox serviced with a reconditioned Torque Convertor and new clutch linings (THis has started to return)

AS the so called repair is under guarantee I must at least give them the chance to put it right

As I see it there are three possibilities

It was not apparent that I had significant oil loss and oil in the water before my trip to LIncolnshire

A) It was the oil cooler and the same problem has occurred and It was a sudden influx of oil that filled the Header tank and that happened quickly ie over 150 - 200 milles
This is under guarantee

B) It is a new problem (Is this likely as it is exactly the same symptoms)

C) Changing the Oil Cooler did not fix the problems but the symptoms!
He removed the Oil Cooler and flushed the engine a number of times. He wanted to do more but because I could not afford to stay any more He returned it to me and I gave the car two FULL Flushes using two lots of Wynns engine flush and hundreds of gallons of water
So what has happened since then is that it has continued to leak filling all the high spot and those are now full and it has forced the emulsified oil through in klarge quantitie.

D) Something else

A you say a D section could be forming or the Head could be gone.

Will be phoning the specialist in a couple of hours.

I did pay by Credit Card so there is some comeback

Certainly lost faith in them over the price

Its going to cost 200.00 to get it too Horncastle.

Is it worth flushing the system again getting rid of as much oil as I can and see if the Header Tank fills up quickly.

THIS IS THE BILL

Removed old Oil Cooler
Flushed out Coolant system
fitted new oil cooler with new 'O' rings
Refitted all hoses and refilled with new coolant
Road tested car and checked for any leaks - All Ok
Advised customer to check cooland in the morning £600.00 (+ vat)

Total Bill 1,100.50

PLUS PARTS


Thanks

 

[Chris_in_the_UK]

Please, before you do anything else, give Hartech a call and let them talk you through a few stuff.

You need another opinion before you do anything (seriously).

Will PM you.

 

[richardjjs1]

The problem is that I have already spent 1100.00

Do I throw away that money

Did speak to Hartech when it was slight oil. They totally agree with all you say So am not doubting that

No way am I doubting what you say but Sport911 at Horncastle come highly recommended from the Porsche Dealer at Chester.

reason for 600.00 is that its an old car and they charged me for the time it took.

Have spoken with them and they want the opportunity to look at the car again and will pressure test the engine to see if its a problem with cylinder, hear or head gaskets

Apparently they do rebuild engines and don't use Hartech any more

Will phone Hartech as suggested.

The main problem is that they want to rebuild the engine have quoted 5k PLUS parts like cylinder heads. plus VAT

Not sure if that includes new liners. Is a car that's done 105 k worth spending that type of money on (it has an insurance value of 14K but that's because of all the extras)

They use the usual phrase while we've got the engine out we might as well !!! and that's what costs the money.

How do you PM someone (Facebook ass richardjjs or Richardsimmons)

Thanks

 

[richardjjs1]

Just spent a half an hour talking to Grant at Hartech

Basically they will drop the engine and retest the Oil cooler

(Problem here is that if it is the cooler, and it could be, Ive lost 2k!!)

Then they will remove the heads and test them

S/H Head and service both Heads 3.3 k

Strip and rebuild engine with Gaskets and Seals 3.5 (Plus parts)

Bearings service heads Chain and Intermediate Bearing 4.5 (Plus parts)

Above with 3.6 shaft another 700 pounds

Could spend 8k plus VAT!!!

and Ive still got the Noise when it changes up from 3rd Which the Gearbox specialist and a number of others say is NOT the gearbox
This could be something that has been disturbed (

So while its out I might as well (Spend 8k)

Gotta do some thing!!