performance mods
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Hot film conversion is not possible on a 3.2 as far as I know - different intake set up to the 964 (on which the conversion can be made). As for the chip and large bore throttle body, in their own rights won't do much in terms of extra bhp (maybe +10), but they will improve part load throttle response and flatten out the torque curve. Overall it should make the car feel a bit quicker, but not enormously so. If you were to combine those mods with backdating the heating system and using a SSI exhaust system you can get about as much extra oomph as you are ever likely to get from a 3.2 engine without increasing the capacity. These engines are very difficult and expensive to get a major increase in power out of, unless you want to go down the route of forced induction (turbo or supercharging).
The main advice seems to be that if you want a quicker car the best way to achieve it is by losing weight.
That said, a few of us on the forum have chips winging their way from the USA at the moment. When they arrive I'm sure we'll all write up our experiences.
Jamie
The main advice seems to be that if you want a quicker car the best way to achieve it is by losing weight.
That said, a few of us on the forum have chips winging their way from the USA at the moment. When they arrive I'm sure we'll all write up our experiences.
Jamie
That's certainly one option. By the time you have spent a lot of time and money squeezing every last bhp out of the 3.2 engine you may as well have just dropped a 993 3.6l lump in, running in standard tune. You will have more power and torque and an engine that isn't being stressed above and beyond its original spec. Have a look on the www.9mracing.co.uk site for the various engine transplant / upgrade options that are available. Colin Belton at 9m is reckoned to be one of the real experts in this field and is a thoroughly nice bloke to boot !
Jamie
Jamie
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Ask AmD for some dyno evidence. If they can't provide then select an appropriate level of scepticism. BTW, they have a dyno.
I think you can do hot film on a 3.2 - search for Huntley Racing who sell everything you need. I think the Huntley set up is pretty nice and well priced (in the universe of Porsche prices anyway). They have some features that AmD don't offer.
Just a couple of other comments. I (and others who have dyno tested) are not convinced the SSIs will give any real hp increase - maybe just a little midrange torque - compared with the euro exhaust. SSIs work well on SC engines but not so good on 3.2s. A good semi-chip (or custom chip) and a slightly more free flowing exhaust are about it for cheap horsepower (only about another 10-15hp).
If you are doing a top end rebuild then cams can give a few more plus change the shape of the torque curve.
There are plenty of other things you can do to 3.2s but they require £££.
The 3.2 is not slow, but you need 4500rpm on the clock and you need to use all the revs. The power to weight ratio of a 964 is no better.
There are other threads regarding mods that you may like to look at in this forum.
HTH
Richard
Hi I have almost the exact mods you discuss.
It is an Autothority Hot wire Air mass Flow sensor and enlarged throttle body.
The car is def faster but I have been unable/unwilling to get reliable dynos done.
Bottom line is that there is no 3.2 that can touch mine around my local trackBUT I have had a lot of other tweaks done to susp and brakes so it is difficult to quantify.
My top tips are ( for what it's worth) Buy Bruce Andersons book then, 1. get your engine to produce the power it was designed to produce.
2. Improve breathing with K&N or similar and consider pre-silensor bypass exhaust mod.
3.Enlarge throttle body.
4. Consider trick devices like Racelogic Alterpower ( alternater disconnect at full throttle -- cheap).
5. Air Mass Flow device.
This lot should sort you out for increased straight line speed.
6. Remap/Custom chip eprom to your modified setup to optimise fueling etc.
There is no cheap gain in BHP for a 3.2 and it is v,v,diff to quantify individual mods if you do several at the same time.
Or buy mine
Mike[
][][]
It is an Autothority Hot wire Air mass Flow sensor and enlarged throttle body.
The car is def faster but I have been unable/unwilling to get reliable dynos done.
Bottom line is that there is no 3.2 that can touch mine around my local trackBUT I have had a lot of other tweaks done to susp and brakes so it is difficult to quantify.
My top tips are ( for what it's worth) Buy Bruce Andersons book then, 1. get your engine to produce the power it was designed to produce.
2. Improve breathing with K&N or similar and consider pre-silensor bypass exhaust mod.
3.Enlarge throttle body.
4. Consider trick devices like Racelogic Alterpower ( alternater disconnect at full throttle -- cheap).
5. Air Mass Flow device.
This lot should sort you out for increased straight line speed.
6. Remap/Custom chip eprom to your modified setup to optimise fueling etc.
There is no cheap gain in BHP for a 3.2 and it is v,v,diff to quantify individual mods if you do several at the same time.
Or buy mine
Mike[
][][]
Mike,
Have you actually got one of those Racelogic Alterpower thingies, or know of someone who has ? Looking at the website it looks like quite an interesting idea http://www.alterpower.co.uk/index.shtml
I wonder if the 911's curious alternator set up might make it difficult if not impossible to fit ?
Jamie
Have you actually got one of those Racelogic Alterpower thingies, or know of someone who has ? Looking at the website it looks like quite an interesting idea http://www.alterpower.co.uk/index.shtml
I wonder if the 911's curious alternator set up might make it difficult if not impossible to fit ?
Jamie
I bought an Alter power about 2-3 yr ago and had a problem with it draining the battery.
Did what is says on the tin though.
It needs a new bit( technical eh) but aftersales service wasn't too good with this product so it has been removed from my car awaiting repair, my technician assures me it's a simple enough job but to tell the truth I've forgotten about it 'till now, so I'll call him in the New Year and get it fixed and refitted.
Mike
Did what is says on the tin though.
It needs a new bit( technical eh) but aftersales service wasn't too good with this product so it has been removed from my car awaiting repair, my technician assures me it's a simple enough job but to tell the truth I've forgotten about it 'till now, so I'll call him in the New Year and get it fixed and refitted.
Mike
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New member
Thanks for the ideas and experiences everyone.
My mods so far:
Full, proper, dogs 'nads 12,000m service
clean injectors
new cold start valve
cone filter
new belts: alternator + air pump + oil pump. New fuel filter
Superchip
stainless rear exhaust box with twin 85mm outlets
stainless bypass pipe instead of pre-box
short shift
porscheshop in Halesowen gave me rolling road tune printout that they got done from their subcontractor. Rear wheel hp was only 236 at 6133rom, BUT it was very nearly a 45-curve degree curve. I'm happy with this. Torque was in two flat lines. One below 3500 at 170-ish and one above 3500 at 206.
Car feels apparently tighter and crisper, but a lot of changes had been made to brakes, suspension and steering. Also weighs 50kg lighter now.
All in all, I reckon it's enuff to make a discernable difference, but not so much as to render it usless for traffic jams. (I'd never have anything done that compromises fitness for daily use.). Not sure how much of the change in feel is down to the engine mods and how much is down to brakes / steering / susp, but it was deff worth it overall.
My mods so far:
Full, proper, dogs 'nads 12,000m service
clean injectors
new cold start valve
cone filter
new belts: alternator + air pump + oil pump. New fuel filter
Superchip
stainless rear exhaust box with twin 85mm outlets
stainless bypass pipe instead of pre-box
short shift
porscheshop in Halesowen gave me rolling road tune printout that they got done from their subcontractor. Rear wheel hp was only 236 at 6133rom, BUT it was very nearly a 45-curve degree curve. I'm happy with this. Torque was in two flat lines. One below 3500 at 170-ish and one above 3500 at 206.
Car feels apparently tighter and crisper, but a lot of changes had been made to brakes, suspension and steering. Also weighs 50kg lighter now.
All in all, I reckon it's enuff to make a discernable difference, but not so much as to render it usless for traffic jams. (I'd never have anything done that compromises fitness for daily use.). Not sure how much of the change in feel is down to the engine mods and how much is down to brakes / steering / susp, but it was deff worth it overall.
Guest
New member
What bhp were you expecting?
I assume from you're sig when you say wide body cabrio you mean 3.2 Supersport as opposed to turbo?
236 bhp on a 3.2 (I presume you mean flywheel as opposed to rearwheel - 236 rearwheel would equal 277 flywheel with 15% loss and I believe would take big ££££'s on a na 3.2) is 5 bhp over stock and on an 86 car presumably with a few miles on it doesnt seem that bad to me.
What is the chip you have put in? where from?
What does this mean exactly - (new belts: alternator + air pump + oil pump)
New fan belt (alternator) I understand but air pump? (Aircon compressor?) Oil pump? (Its in the engine and not belt driven? replacement requires splitting of the crankcase).
What were your changes to brakes suspension and steering? How'd you lose 50kg?
The car sounds like its in good shape but I'm a bit confused over what you have had done.
Cheers
Andy
I assume from you're sig when you say wide body cabrio you mean 3.2 Supersport as opposed to turbo?
236 bhp on a 3.2 (I presume you mean flywheel as opposed to rearwheel - 236 rearwheel would equal 277 flywheel with 15% loss and I believe would take big ££££'s on a na 3.2) is 5 bhp over stock and on an 86 car presumably with a few miles on it doesnt seem that bad to me.
What is the chip you have put in? where from?
What does this mean exactly - (new belts: alternator + air pump + oil pump)
New fan belt (alternator) I understand but air pump? (Aircon compressor?) Oil pump? (Its in the engine and not belt driven? replacement requires splitting of the crankcase).
What were your changes to brakes suspension and steering? How'd you lose 50kg?
The car sounds like its in good shape but I'm a bit confused over what you have had done.
Cheers
Andy
Guest
New member
Hey Andy
To be honest, I wasn't expecting any more bhp over the standard 231. Well, maybe 5-9 bhp more, if the ads were to be believed. This is because I've read conflicting user reports on the effect of so-called freeflow air filters and exhausts. Some say " If it's that's good, why don't Porsche supply it from the factory?" Some people say "The factory settings can ALWAYS be improved upon by a specialist. Specialists are always going to do a better job than the (generalist) factory". My view is that if I get better drivability, flexibility, etc, then job done. I don't mind admitting I am sceptical about aftermarket manufaturers' power claims.
Yep, it's a Super Sport / SSE and not a Turbo. I tried a Turbo coupe, but actually prefer NA. (My previous cars were mostly big US V8's - until I grew up a bit and realised that UK roads have thinngs called corners). With the turbo, I found I had to do too much thinking just before a bend so as not to (a) lose too much speed and (b) try to keep it on boost (c) keep it balanced according to the laws of physics.
Nope - the printout says 236 rear wheel, not flywheel. Hmmm....it's a bit too much, n'est pas? I'm a cynic and take it all with a pinch of salt. Mind you, the 71k engine was in good nick with good compression and no oil leaks in the first place.
Chip used was porscheshop's Superchip. I think it's been around for a few years now.
Air pump was the air con compressor. (Wish that I meant supercharger, tho'!!!)
Brakes:
New discs, EBC pads, braided steel hoses, DoT4. (painted calipers red, and white logo) too
Suspension / Steering:
930 steering control arm
30mm lower ride height
Cut down bump stops by 40mm
Alloy strut brace
Check and adjust 4-wheel geometry
Change bushings "" all anti-roll bars inc drop links
Bilstein Green gas shox
Lost 50kg by putting on 965 plastic bumpers and aftermarket 18 inchers.
Going to buy one of those new digital camera thingies in Jan sales, so I can email pix if you're interested
P.S. Before buying the car, I was sure I didn't want the complications of a 964, but couldn't find a G50 3.2 in good enuff nick. Well, it's too late now, so I'm going to enjoy what I have til I can afford a 993
Regards
To be honest, I wasn't expecting any more bhp over the standard 231. Well, maybe 5-9 bhp more, if the ads were to be believed. This is because I've read conflicting user reports on the effect of so-called freeflow air filters and exhausts. Some say " If it's that's good, why don't Porsche supply it from the factory?" Some people say "The factory settings can ALWAYS be improved upon by a specialist. Specialists are always going to do a better job than the (generalist) factory". My view is that if I get better drivability, flexibility, etc, then job done. I don't mind admitting I am sceptical about aftermarket manufaturers' power claims.
Yep, it's a Super Sport / SSE and not a Turbo. I tried a Turbo coupe, but actually prefer NA. (My previous cars were mostly big US V8's - until I grew up a bit and realised that UK roads have thinngs called corners). With the turbo, I found I had to do too much thinking just before a bend so as not to (a) lose too much speed and (b) try to keep it on boost (c) keep it balanced according to the laws of physics.
Nope - the printout says 236 rear wheel, not flywheel. Hmmm....it's a bit too much, n'est pas? I'm a cynic and take it all with a pinch of salt. Mind you, the 71k engine was in good nick with good compression and no oil leaks in the first place.
Chip used was porscheshop's Superchip. I think it's been around for a few years now.
Air pump was the air con compressor. (Wish that I meant supercharger, tho'!!!)
Brakes:
New discs, EBC pads, braided steel hoses, DoT4. (painted calipers red, and white logo) too
Suspension / Steering:
930 steering control arm
30mm lower ride height
Cut down bump stops by 40mm
Alloy strut brace
Check and adjust 4-wheel geometry
Change bushings "" all anti-roll bars inc drop links
Bilstein Green gas shox
Lost 50kg by putting on 965 plastic bumpers and aftermarket 18 inchers.
Going to buy one of those new digital camera thingies in Jan sales, so I can email pix if you're interested
P.S. Before buying the car, I was sure I didn't want the complications of a 964, but couldn't find a G50 3.2 in good enuff nick. Well, it's too late now, so I'm going to enjoy what I have til I can afford a 993
Regards
Guest
New member
Do you estimate you have lost 50kg or do the scales say you have lost 50kg? I am just curious, as the swap to 18 inch wheels and tyres would have added a minimum 5kg per corner compared to 16 inch Fuchs. Accordingly, your plastic bumpers would need to be a massive 70kg lighter to net that sort of reduction. I would be surprised if the standard bumbers and valences weigh a lot more than 70kg in total. The bumbers themselves are, afterall, aluminium.
I don't mean to doubt you, I am just curious []
Its hard work losing a lot of weight. You normally have to revert to chucking a whole lot of stuff in a skip to get the big reductions - something not many people (myself included) are prepared to do.
Richard
I don't mean to doubt you, I am just curious [
]Its hard work losing a lot of weight. You normally have to revert to chucking a whole lot of stuff in a skip to get the big reductions - something not many people (myself included) are prepared to do.
Richard
Guest
New member
You know what Richard, I think you're right. I never bothered to weigh the 3.2 impact bumpers. BUT, when I physically picked up the plastic 965 bumpers, they felt not much more than 10kg each. Does anyone know how much impact bumpers weigh?
BTW, like you, I also don't want to get to the stage where I need shed my carpets. Otherwise I'd've bought a Caterham!
Cheers & Merry Christmas everyone
BTW, like you, I also don't want to get to the stage where I need shed my carpets. Otherwise I'd've bought a Caterham!
Cheers & Merry Christmas everyone
Guest
New member
Try Ian at porscheshop in Halesowen 0121 585 6088. You can use my name as ref, if you want. Friendly, knowledgable bunch of people.
2-pack acrylic lasts the longest and has the widest choice of colours, too.
HOWEVER, an ultimately fast car has the best possible 60-0 (not just 0-60), so I'm going for a biggre disc-and-caliper conversion after I've wrecked this current set-up.
G'luck!
2-pack acrylic lasts the longest and has the widest choice of colours, too.
HOWEVER, an ultimately fast car has the best possible 60-0 (not just 0-60), so I'm going for a biggre disc-and-caliper conversion after I've wrecked this current set-up.
G'luck!
Guest
New member
Hi Richard
I haven't decided on which brake conversion I'm going for yet as I'm still recovering financially from the above mods. []
930 Motorsport are quoting about £1200 + VAT for Brembo monoblock calipers, etc, but it may be over-kill for my use.
I'm quite embarrassed to admit this, but I haven't been anywhere near a track yet! As I mentioned earlier, all I've known before this car, my first 911, were traditional front-engined, RWD, leaf-sprung muscle cars (and then, later, exec barges), so corners are a new one on me.
For both business and medical reasons, I won't be truly free until mid-March to test both myself and the car out on a track.
Looking forward to it, though!
[]
The problems I had with standard brakes when I first got the car? Too spongey, lots of fading, lots of pedal travel, ineffectual.
They weren't exactly confidence-inspiring. So I asked around various independents.
Some said: '911 brakes aren't that great, so don't expect too much' yet others said: 'What you talking about? - it's got the Turbo's discs and should therefore stop on a pin.'
I just think mine weren't running right because they simply hadn't been used (or used really hard).
I once heard a story about a guy who kept moaning that his street-legal car wasn't fast enough / brakes weren't good enough - until someone else drove it on a track with the owner as a passenger. Scared the living bejeesus out of him and he never looked at a performance mod again. Who knows - maybe I'll go the same way?
Seriously though, I'm well aware that the car, even in standard factory spec, is more than I'll ever need. It's just a good feeling knowing that (or kidding yourself) that more is better!
Cheers
I haven't decided on which brake conversion I'm going for yet as I'm still recovering financially from the above mods. [
]930 Motorsport are quoting about £1200 + VAT for Brembo monoblock calipers, etc, but it may be over-kill for my use.
I'm quite embarrassed to admit this, but I haven't been anywhere near a track yet! As I mentioned earlier, all I've known before this car, my first 911, were traditional front-engined, RWD, leaf-sprung muscle cars (and then, later, exec barges), so corners are a new one on me.
For both business and medical reasons, I won't be truly free until mid-March to test both myself and the car out on a track.
Looking forward to it, though!
[
]The problems I had with standard brakes when I first got the car? Too spongey, lots of fading, lots of pedal travel, ineffectual.
They weren't exactly confidence-inspiring. So I asked around various independents.
Some said: '911 brakes aren't that great, so don't expect too much' yet others said: 'What you talking about? - it's got the Turbo's discs and should therefore stop on a pin.'
I just think mine weren't running right because they simply hadn't been used (or used really hard).
I once heard a story about a guy who kept moaning that his street-legal car wasn't fast enough / brakes weren't good enough - until someone else drove it on a track with the owner as a passenger. Scared the living bejeesus out of him and he never looked at a performance mod again. Who knows - maybe I'll go the same way?
Seriously though, I'm well aware that the car, even in standard factory spec, is more than I'll ever need. It's just a good feeling knowing that (or kidding yourself) that more is better!
Cheers
I think that the standard 3,2brake set up is very good if it is in perfect condition ( I bet Richard's is ) but there is a huge variation in cars of our age.
I went for the front monobloc set up which is Boxster brake callipers ( v cheap) and adaptor brackets ( vv expensive) to fit the 3.2, I am currently using performance friction 97 compound pads and these are significantly better than anything I have tried, and I've tried a lot.
I haven't uprated the rears other than pads and I have the curious problem of rear end lock up which according to the 9Meister is not a result of changing the fronts only.
If funds allowed I would go with monoblocs fr/rr simply because I fancy it, and that dear fellow modders is how I have made some good and not so wonderful decisions when changing my car . One of the biggest problems is that most specialists cannot seem to agree on even the most basic modification advice and so you phone one and they will give you their spiel while often ,but not always denegrating the opposition,
Modifications can be hard work mentally just trying to convince yourself you have made the right decision!!!Good luck
Mike
I went for the front monobloc set up which is Boxster brake callipers ( v cheap) and adaptor brackets ( vv expensive) to fit the 3.2, I am currently using performance friction 97 compound pads and these are significantly better than anything I have tried, and I've tried a lot.
I haven't uprated the rears other than pads and I have the curious problem of rear end lock up which according to the 9Meister is not a result of changing the fronts only.
If funds allowed I would go with monoblocs fr/rr simply because I fancy it, and that dear fellow modders is how I have made some good and not so wonderful decisions when changing my car . One of the biggest problems is that most specialists cannot seem to agree on even the most basic modification advice and so you phone one and they will give you their spiel while often ,but not always denegrating the opposition,
Modifications can be hard work mentally just trying to convince yourself you have made the right decision!!!Good luck
Mike
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