Porsche 911 SC or the G50 gearbox later 911??

[SirCarlsworth]

Hi everyone! I have posted on the 911uk forum about how I'm selling my VW Camper to get a Porsche 911 SC. The Camper has sold (well being collected this weekend) and I'm going to start looking for a 911.

A couple of people have said the later 911 with the 3.2 litre engine and I believe the G50 gearbox is a much better purchase. I've noticed the SC's are cheaper but I'm confused what to do. Is it a reliability issue why the later 911 is recommended or is it purely more power due to the engine size and better gear ratios??

My dialema is I'm 24 and the best insurance quote I got for the SC was £1500 a year with 3000 limited miles, and for the 3.2 litre 911 it was about £1750 for the year. I don't plan on putting the engine through its paces so if it's purely just because they later one has more power I'd be happy with the SC, because both look really cool.

Any help or advice will be appreciated []

Carl.

 

[geoff Ives]

A potted History.
In 1978 the SC replaced the 911 2.7 and 3 litre Carreras. Among the changes were alluminium crankcases rather than magnesium, brake servo and small detail mods. The early SC's put out 178bhp.
After a couple of upgrades the output was 200 (correct me if I am sleightly out as I don't have the facts in front of me)
The 911 3.2 Carrera replaced the SC main changes were to engine output. The later 3.2 had the famous G50 gearbox with it came hydrolic clutch operation.

Which to buy?
Except when pushed you will not see much difference between a late SC and an early 3.2. In both of them 9and earlier models) the 915 gearbox needs warming up before it becomes smooth to operate on account of the large quantity of cold oil in it. The real difference is the clutch. If you do a lot of town driving the cable clutch of early models is a pain.
Good luck.

 

[dij999]

204 bhp engine started with 1981 model (cars first registered in late 1980).
I have had one for 30 years - still going well - I never considered the clutch
an issue though my diminutive wife does.

Dave Jones

 

[chris.hevey]

Only a smidge out Geoff, 204 bhp!

I'm never driven a 3.2, but the gents who re-built my engine really know their Porsches, said they had a preference for the 3.0 engine. Freer revving is one thing I remember. Anyway, after a VW camper either will feel pretty quick!

The key thing is to buy one that's been loved. Rust properly sorted and ideally engine and gearbox rebuilt. Spending two or three thousand more on the purchase price can save you loads in the long run - I speak from painful experience here! Coupes are most favoured, hence at a bit more expensive. Apparently they are stiffer (which is good, I'm told!) and don't suffer from leaks. But I personally prefer my Targa and was lucky to get a non-leaky one. Just the ticket for buzzing about on sunny days.

 

[SirCarlsworth]

You have all been very helpful so far thank you! The hydraulic clutch will not bother me neither dij999 because I am an alarm engineer and have a company car I can use to do boring journeys. The history was very interesting Geoff.

I think I will do exactly that Chris and invest in one that has had engine/gearbox work done. I called in at a Porsche garage and he told me that a lot of parts have to be specially made, he shown me 2 little metal tubes that cost £400! That's interesting how the Coupe doesn't suffer from leaking as much. What is the main difference between the Targa and Coupe? I have been mainly looking at the cheaper end which seen to be Targas.

Thanks Phillip I did wander if you would notice a big difference between the 3.2 with it's fancy gearbox and the SC []

I bought an expensive breatheable cover for the Camper that was designed to fit snug and clip together underneath, is there anything available for the 911 and where would you recommend getting one from??

Cheers.

 

[Rotorhead]

I bought a nearly new 1983 204bhp SC, from Malaya Garage (the then OPC for Sussex ) in March 1984. Had 5,033 mls on the clock and I used it as my only day-to day transport.

Then had a 944 Turbo, then some years later had a nearly new 3.2 Carrera 'Club Sport' - this had the G50 gearbox, had only done 1,200 mls, but was much lightened and, although quoted at 231bhp, the blueprinted engine actually produced 245bhp. Fabulous car - now owned by a collector - but still one of my favourite ever Porsches (and I've had a few).

Anyway - you will pay more, but I think the G50 3.2 is a better car, nicer engine and gearbox, and a better long term investment.

 

[dij999]

"What is the main difference between the Targa and Coupe?"

Targa - roof removable (stores folded on back seat or boot) leaving rear window and 'roll bar' so open top motoring but easily put back when weather turns - not guaranteed to be completely waterproof in a downpour though - god forbid you would take one through a car wash. A true convertible (cabriolet) was not produced until '83 so open air motoring meant it had to be Targa until then. Targa is a bit heavier and of course as there's no roof it has to be less stiff, I have driven so many SCs and 3.2s in the last 30 years and have not seen a lot of difference between Targa and Coupe as far as handling or performance were concerned - any differences were due to other factors.

Other choice from that era for the SC is the Sport package which gave bigger wheels, front and rear spoilers(the classic rubber whale fin was not provided on non-Sport cars) and uprated suspension, though many non-Sport cars have had these fitted since. This Sport package was an option offered only for the UK market - the individual items were offered as separate optional extras elsewhere.

Mine is a Targa Sport- it's what I wanted 30 years ago when I bought it - it does leak a little despite new rubberware. It hasn't been a daily driver for some time (use bikes mostly) and probably suffers more because of that - they are best used. I have a limited (3000 mile) classic policy on the SC costing £180 and often don't do the 3000 as it's put away for 6 months or so of the year when the 996 gets used on non-biking days. I have a breathable waterproof cover for the car for the few occasions it's left out in the weather - they are freely available - I think mine came from ebay.

2 metal tubes costing £400? - not sure what that was but haven't been there yet and haven't had to have anything specially manufactured in 30 years - theres a lot of spares out there and also after-market supply of a lot of stuff though have noticed electrical items like switches and motors have become more expensive of late. These cars came from an era when Porsche really made cars that were over-engineered but they are easy cars to work on if you are that way inclined.

The best thing you can do when you buy one is join the club if only for the contacts and the discounts, I think my mebership saves me at least twice what I pay for it every year.

Dave Jones

 

[chris.hevey]

There are three roof choices. The Coupe which is a proper metal roof, the convertible or cabriolet, which is a full-on fold down soft top, and the Targa which is a half way house. It has a removable roof section which you have to manually remove and stick under the bonnet or dump on the rear seats. Massive pain in the batty. But compared to the cabriolet, you have a roll bar and a rear wind screen, so hair-do remains relatively intact which is important when you're 24 as I remember. Particularly if you roll the car (not recommended)

As said earlier, the coupe is lighter and stiffer, so the best driving machine - no question, although if fast is all that matters, buy a relatively recent Boxster or (dare I say it here?) a Subaru or Evo for the same or less money, albeit much more expensive insurance and, critically, zero class. (I speak as an ex scooby driver)

Style? Any 911 is stylish. Cool? All 911s are cool.

 

[chrishak]

My advice would be to base your decision on three things - condition, condition and condition! Everything from a 180 bhp SC Targa to a G50 3.2 Coupe will be a total joy if you get a good one or a disappointing money pit if you ignore those little rust bubbles in the door shuts, around the windscreen apperture or headlamp bowls - they will be the tip of a very expensive iceberg. Mechanical condition is also important, of course, but problems will be easier, quicker and probably cheaper to fix - unless the engine / gearbox is totally shot.

 

[SirCarlsworth]

Thanks for the info dij999! I do like the sounds of the Targa sport, I would not rule out the Targa over the Coupe over a chance that the roof may leak because the removeable roof does sound cool anyway. I will look on ebay for them covers...

Yeah I do like to have a go at repairing things myself then if I get stuck I ask for help, with the age of the car I think I'd be able to work with problems with switches & electrical problems, but the engine would be something I'd want to make sure is ok. These two 20cm tubes were for the engine I believe, about 3cm in diameter I think. Joining the club would probably be a very good idea, to meet people and also for help and advice. With the Camper I knew where to get everything and had a good idea over most common problems. How much is your membership??

Thanks for your explanation of the roofs Chris Hevey haha at the comment on the hair du!! It may sound silly but the reason for buying the Porsche is not for the speed, I just have always liked the look of the car. The price of fuel and an engine rebuild will keep my foot off the pedal!

I agree chrishak I'm going to base my judgement on either going for a Targa or a Coupe based on what I find in the best condition for an affordable price

 

[bones]

Don't be put off by anyone telling you Targas are this or that, they are great 911s and unless you are a seasoned racer driving on a track, you will never notice the difference next to a coupe, it's all down to personal taste and the drivers of coupes often don't like Targas, I like Targas better but I would never have a cab'. They can leak but they don't have to, wind noise is more likely to be a problem. All parts are available for the engine so I have no idea what the tubes are for, ask them exactly what they are talking about because it sounds a bit strange to us veterans. Spend plenty of time looking, mistakes are expensive.

 

[chrishak]

ORIGINAL: SirCarlsworth

Thanks for the info dij999! I do like the sounds of the Targa sport, I would not rule out the Targa over the Coupe over a chance that the roof may leak because the removeable roof does sound cool anyway. I will look on ebay for them covers...

Yeah I do like to have a go at repairing things myself then if I get stuck I ask for help, with the age of the car I think I'd be able to work with problems with switches & electrical problems, but the engine would be something I'd want to make sure is ok. These two 20cm tubes were for the engine I believe, about 3cm in diameter I think. Joining the club would probably be a very good idea, to meet people and also for help and advice. With the Camper I knew where to get everything and had a good idea over most common problems. How much is your membership??

Thanks for your explanation of the roofs Chris Hevey  haha at the comment on the hair du!! It may sound silly but the reason for buying the Porsche is not for the speed, I just have always liked the look of the car. The price of fuel and an engine rebuild will keep my foot off the pedal!

I agree chrishak I'm going to base my judgement on either going for a Targa or a Coupe based on what I find in the best condition for an affordable price

The tubes you were quoted £400 to have specially made sound like the oil tubes from your description. However, there are four of them, they are available off the shelf and are NOT that expensive. However, eventually they will need replacing but are easily checked from below and any careful owner would have had them replaced at the first sign of problems because you don't want a catastrophic failure of the oil system on an air-cooled vehicle! For the same reason, I wouldn't recommend the use of collapsable tubes which can be fitted without major engine dismantling.
Also, don't listen to anyone who says that parts are hard to come by - most bits are available from Porsche or independents, and even Euro Car Parts for many parts.

 

[Porker993]

Dear Carl

Do not worry too much about 204 versus 231 bhp, or 915 vs G50 gearbox.

The main thing to look out for is rust. A £10k SC can cost £20k to fix properly.

Much of the rust is hidden, under carpets, in the sills and kidney bowls, the inner front wings.

Please take good advice, and ask someone who knows the cars. Yes, I know they were galvanised, but after 30 years, that doesn't help much.

 

[SirCarlsworth]

Thanks bones and chrishak, it's good to know parts are available without too much difficulty, and I'm looking at the moment but I'm in no rush... I rushed out and bought a Beetle once and then regretted it afterwards. The heater channels were shot and that's the hardest part of the chassis to cut out and repair, and I wouldn't dare put a jetwash to the paintwork!

Hi Porker993, I agree the engine and gearbox differences do not matter to me as long as they have a lot of life left in them, and as for the rust I will go all around the car when I view one, and then get a Porsche garage to check it out before handing over money. It may prove to be £100 well spent. If anyone knows of one for sale that seems like a good one, and if it's in red, please let me know [8D]

 

[oilyrag]

Yeah....... all good advice BUT you had to spoil it!!!!
RED!!! OH NO NOT ANOTHER ONE....there are tons more great colours out there that really make the car look good!
Of course that's only personal preference you understand...whatever rocks your boat. []