Porsche test driver killed .....

[stevespic]

The 51-year-old driver was driving at high speed from Frankfurt to Heidelberg and crashed into a highway barrier for unknown reasons. He died at the scene of the accident.
A second test driver for the luxury sports car company was following the man in a four-door prototype and managed to slow down in time to avoid a pile-up, police said.
The A5 motorway in Hesse was closed going south while rescue workers cleaned up the accident, meanwhile the public prosecutor's office called in an expert to assess the scene. Police estimated the damage to be in the tens of thousands of euros.

Im sure the guy died doing what he loved but i cant help thinking how much more do we want from are supercar builders ... ? will we never be happy ?

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: spic01
The 51-year-old driver was driving at high speed from Frankfurt to Heidelberg and crashed into a highway barrier for unknown reasons.

Given that there is no known reason yet for this tragic accident, I'm not sure what your point is?

 

[stevespic]

ORIGINAL: TTM

ORIGINAL: spic01
The 51-year-old driver was driving at high speed from Frankfurt to Heidelberg and crashed into a highway barrier for unknown reasons.

Given that there is no known reason yet for this tragic accident, I'm not sure what your point is?

POINT IS ......will supercar manufacturers ever stop competing for the ultimate car, after all these cars have to be tested to there limits before you or i could buy one and once the purchase has been made where could we realistically replicate those limits ? So whats the point ?

 

[Fen]

Yeah, that's true. Why didn't we just stop development with the Model T? It was mass produced, relatively cheap and did everything the average person could dream of in 1908.

Same with computers - the IBM PC in 1981 was pretty slick and everyone found it impressive to the point they were amazed at what they could do with it, so we could have stopped there.

How about our homes? Glass is pretty cool and when we could have it in flat sheets to use in our windows it kept the wind and rain out, so why did we bother with that double glazing idea? Complete waste of effort, surely. Not to mention resources - it takes twice as much glass...

Are you really being serious in this suggestion?[8|]

 

[Wigeon Incognito]

Good post Fen, it's a terrible shame the chap died but ultimately he knew the risks everyday he carried out his job.

Driving is a large part of my job, as is facing aggressive members of the public - so far so good and I love what I do but I accept that one day it's likely to be my downfall.

 

[sawood12]

Well its always a shame to hear about any road fatality but unfortunately Humans are genetically programmed to always push forward. However just because modern cars (not just sportscars) are so capable of being driven fast these days doesn't mean that everyone, or even hardly anyone, ever drives them anywhere near their limits. In almost all car crash fatalities I think you'd be able to show that it was the person driving irresponsibly and at speeds nowhere near the capabilities of the car that is the problem. People will kill themselves just as effectively in a Ford Ka than a 911 turbo.

 

[Black_JPN]

ORIGINAL: spic01

Im sure the guy died doing what he loved but i cant help thinking how much more do we want from are supercar builders ... ? will we never be happy ?

If perfection could ever be achieved it wouldn't be worth having. Hence, as others have said we strive forward on a never ending quest for nirvana. It we didn't then we may as well not bother getting up in the morning and head back to the trees.

A guy died. Tragic for sure but we know of no other details surrounding this incident do we? So maybe he wasn't even testing a vehicle, maybe he hit some black ice, had a blow out etc. Just because he was a test driver for Porsche, suddenly we have to stop all development of supercars? When Senna died did F1 stop? Do you think he'd have wanted it too? I think this guy would be happiest knowing his legacy continued.

I, like others find your comments strange given the car you drive and presumed passion for cars that usually accompanies such a vehicle. Remember in terms of acceleration and speed the development of cars has only ever moved on fractionally. You could buy a car as quick as your S2 in the 60's/70's (think AC Cobra, Countach, early 928 etc). Most of the real moves forward have focused on comfort, ride, safety (traction control /ABS), braking and handling. That, from a life presevation perspective can only be a good thing.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

If perfection could ever be achieved it wouldn't be worth having. Hence, as others have said we strive forward on a never ending quest for nirvana. It we didn't then we may as well not bother getting up in the morning and head back to the trees.

I agree, but I think Steve's point has been missed.

Performance cars are now on an ever-increasing spiral of more power, more weight and therefore more power. All to grab headlines like 1000BHP, 200MPH +, 4 million torques etc. And, ventilated massaging seats, quad-zone air con, 26-speaker sound and a gazillion air bags. And ESP, ABS, EBD, ASM, BSM, NA, RAC, BMI, and all the other things we can't live without. My mate's M5 is wonderful, but in suburban Rickmansworth it's just not as enjoyable as his old one. And, it's lost him about £30K in a year of not enjoying it as much. What's the point of developing something that you can't ever use properly?

Nirvana isn't necessarily having the biggest, or fastest. It's about being happy, satisfied, having fun. A damn site easier in a Caterham than a Carrera GT in the real world? [8|]

 

[Fen]

With respect I think you might be missing everyone else's point.

It's human nature as has been said. It's also marketing and the direct result of competition. So what if nobody is going to drive a Panamera at 185mph or whatever it will achieve? If it's capable of that then someone might buy one rather than a Quattroporte. When a car is all about performance it's going to be marketed on performance and that means pushing the envelope. That's the financial reason it still goes on.

Even if you don't buy that as being a reason of any value, consider the advances in vehicle safety and efficiency that have been made over the last 50 years (I pick that figure arbitrarily). What pays for the massive development of those advances? New vehicle sales. Specifically sales of expensive new vehicles. It's no coincidence that ABS, traction control, stability control, airbags, ever more airbags etc. etc. etc. etc. appeared first on the top of the line (usually fastest) models and then trickled down into the shopping hatches.

Then what about less obvious stuff? Not so long ago big cars were restricted in top speed by tyre technology, so money was invested in tyre research and the barrier moved forward. Does that help everyone? Of course it does. We talk about tyres on here a lot; which is best yada yada. The fact is every tyre option available today is better than the best the 944 owner had to choose from when it was new (probably including Korean ditch-finders). Those better tyres, even on a standard car, translate to lower noise, longer tyre life, lower fuel consumption and crucially greater safety. All worthwhile gains, all due to tyres and all because tyre technology was pushed to keep up with advances in vehicle technology.

I'm the first to say that I don't rate the current Porsche cars, and that pretty much goes for all new stuff available from most manufacturers, but I absolutely do not agree in the slightest that the boundaries they are pushing should not continue to be pushed and pushed as hard as possible.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

With respect I think you might be missing everyone else's point.

So everyone else is wrong then. []

It's human nature as has been said. It's also marketing and the direct result of competition. So what if nobody is going to drive a Panamera at 185mph or whatever it will achieve? If it's capable of that then someone might buy one rather than a Quattroporte. When a car is all about performance it's going to be marketed on performance and that means pushing the envelope. That's the financial reason it still goes on.

You're absolutely right on two counts there. Car buyers want one-upmanship. So manufacturers play the silly games with "mine's bigger than yours" the only criteria.

Performance, sure that's what we all want. As I understand life, performance isn't all about being able to do 250MPH, better than my neighbour's paltry 246MPH. It's about getting more enjoyment out of what I own in the real world. And, I can't see a Veyron being a more enjoyable performance car than an Elise in Rickmansworth, Monday through Friday, year-round. Regardless of cost.

Test-drivers risking their life for something that'll rarely, if EVER, get used as designed, is a tragic waste of effort as far as I'm concerned. Put all those designers back to work on putting the fun back into cars, and not just an even more powerful engine in a yet more lardy car. That's not actually progress, AMG, just willy-waving.

 

[stevespic]

ORIGINAL: Fen

With respect I think you might be missing everyone else's point.

It's human nature as has been said. It's also marketing and the direct result of competition. So what if nobody is going to drive a Panamera at 185mph or whatever it will achieve? If it's capable of that then someone might buy one rather than a Quattroporte. When a car is all about performance it's going to be marketed on performance and that means pushing the envelope. That's the financial reason it still goes on.

Even if you don't buy that as being a reason of any value, consider the advances in vehicle safety and efficiency that have been made over the last 50 years (I pick that figure arbitrarily). What pays for the massive development of those advances? New vehicle sales. Specifically sales of expensive new vehicles. It's no coincidence that ABS, traction control, stability control, airbags, ever more airbags etc. etc. etc. etc. appeared first on the top of the line (usually fastest) models and then trickled down into the shopping hatches.

Then what about less obvious stuff? Not so long ago big cars were restricted in top speed by tyre technology, so money was invested in tyre research and the barrier moved forward. Does that help everyone? Of course it does. We talk about tyres on here a lot; which is best yada yada. The fact is every tyre option available today is better than the best the 944 owner had to choose from when it was new (probably including Korean ditch-finders). Those better tyres, even on a standard car, translate to lower noise, longer tyre life, lower fuel consumption and crucially greater safety. All worthwhile gains, all due to tyres and all because tyre technology was pushed to keep up with advances in vehicle technology.

I'm the first to say that I don't rate the current Porsche cars, and that pretty much goes for all new stuff available from most manufacturers, but I absolutely do not agree in the slightest that the boundaries they are pushing should not continue to be pushed and pushed as hard as possible.

Fen stay on subject, i understand what your saying im mean who wants to live in a cave but we all realy know what porsche were testing here...so are you serious in suggesting theres actualy a point of making road legal cars faster than the Bugatti Veyron or other models alike ?

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: spic01
Fen stay on subject, i understand what your saying im mean who wants to live in a cave but are you serious in suggesting theres actualy a point of making road legal cars faster than the Bugatti Veyron or other models alike ?

Since post one you may well be off topic, as we ignore if speeding was the actual reason for the crash.
Perhaps the guy simply slipped on oil?
How would you have reacted if this accident had involved a Mercedes or BWM test driver? In real driving conditions on the Autobahn the latest high end diesels can be almost as quick the average Porsche up to 120 mph.

 

[sawood12]

I agree, even the most modest small hatchback is quicker, handles better, brakes better than most if not all sportscars from the '50's and '60's and we have seen road deaths fall over the past few decades - largely due to improvements in safety granted.

I see no problem in sportscars becoming faster than the Veyron. It is extravagant techical exercises like these where ultimately the lessons learned and technology developed with these cars that push forward the boundries of all cars, not just in performance levels but in brakes, safety, aerodynamics, economy etc. The technology in a Veyron will find it's way into future generations of Golf. So we all positively benefit ultimately.

 

[TTM]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
Test-drivers risking their life for something that'll rarely, if EVER, get used as designed, is a tragic waste of effort as far as I'm concerned. Put all those designers back to work on putting the fun back into cars, and not just an even more powerful engine in a yet more lardy car. That's not actually progress, AMG, just willy-waving.

You may want to consider that manufacturers design their cars firstly with respect to their direct driving environment.
French cars are not prone to rattling to death in France because of the good quality of most roads. It is fun driving a basic 206 on a sunny empty B-road. You appreciate the scenery. Even my beaten-up 14 year old Clio that's got more than 120k miles doesn't rattle yet (touch wood [])
German cars are solid and powerful as many Autobahns are almost worn-out pieces of concrete. It is fun driving a diesel E-class Merc at 150 mph. You appreciate the discipline involved in driving that way and enjoy the fact that most other road users are careful enough to make it possible, sadly only in that country.

 

[MarcBC]

ORIGINAL: TTM

ORIGINAL: spic01
Fen stay on subject, i understand what your saying im mean who wants to live in a cave but are you serious in suggesting theres actualy a point of making road legal cars faster than the Bugatti Veyron or other models alike ?

Since post one you may well be off topic, as we ignore if speeding was the actual reason for the crash.
Perhaps the guy simply slipped on oil?
How would you have reacted if this accident had involved a Mercedes or BWM test driver? In real driving conditions on the Autobahn the latest high end diesels can be almost as quick the average Porsche up to 120 mph.

I am with TTM on this. We do not yet know what caused the accident. It was on an autobahn, possibly on an unregulated part and driving as we all would in that situation, irrespective of what car. I have not read anything here that confirms the driver was pushing the car for testing reasons? Perhaps it was oil, perhaps a blowout, perhaps racing the car behind. We do not yet know.

 

[333pg333]

Well if the original poster meant what is the point of having cars that go faster and faster and of course need testing, in theory I see what he's saying then. When are any of us going to use a 250mph car on the road at those speeds? 120mph and you'd lose your licence for a long time and / or be locked up. There's more and more traffic and at least in my country, very few people are trained or talented enough to handle our 110kmh national speed limit.
Now if he meant why do we try to build improved motor vehicles then I disagree. Of course we need to improve. Economy & safety being paramount.

Personally I believe that the speed limits are based on the lowest common denominator. We have to cater for people that just can't cope with anything above 70mph. Today's cars are built with more safety features than ever before and equipped to go much faster than the current speed limits, but don't hold your breath waiting for any changes. The only ones will be lower speed limits and greater penalties.

 

[barks944]

IMO life is just far too dangerous...It should be banned.

 

[stevespic]

Since post one you may well be off topic, as we ignore if speeding was the actual reason for the crash.
Perhaps the guy simply slipped on oil?
How would you have reacted if this accident had involved a Mercedes or BWM test driver? In real driving conditions on the Autobahn the latest high end diesels can be almost as quick the average Porsche up to 120 mph.
[/quote]

Most of the news reporters are saying that the vehicle was thought to be under some sort of endurance test, with the word Endurance in mind and the fact that it happened around 02.45hrs on a road with no speed limit,do you realy think speed wasnt a main factor in this accident no matter what the cause ......?

 

[barks944]

I think its entirely possible it wasnt down to speed. Could have hit a moose for all we know.

 

[stevespic]

ORIGINAL: barks944

I think its entirely possible it wasnt down to speed. Could have hit a moose for all we know.

The pictures of the vehicle do not realy show any sign of it hitting a moose but instead a high chance the vehicle was traveling at high speeds .......... but i guess anything is posible.