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Porsche's new electric 600hp Taycan

[h2]So will diesel cars be banned?[/h2]Nobody is expecting diesel to be banned outright, although some urban centres are likely to outlaw the dirtiest models. From April 2019, London’s Ultra Low Emissions Zone (ULEZ) will charge diesels that don’t meet Euro 6 regulations an extra £12.50 a day, for instance. And that's on top of the existing Congestion Charge...

As a fuel, diesel’s been around for more a century, don’t forget; Rudolf Diesel came up with the eponymous motorised engine in the late nineteenth century and it’s worth remembering that the fuel is chemically more energy-efficient than burning petrol (hence the superior mpg and fuel economy in a low CO2 diesel car).
The good news is that modern diesel engines - those meeting Euro 6 emissions regulations, and forthcoming, even tougher EU7 limits - are impressively clean, with sufficient exhaust after-treatment built in to trap the nasties that give diesel a bad name. Forget the file pictures of dirty taxis rolled out by TV news reports; a well-maintained modern diesel won't in fact belch out black smoke in cities.
Technology such as AdBlue and diesel particulate filters (DPF) are designed to filter out the soot particulates and nitrogen oxides (NOx) emissions that have been linked to ill health. (Volkswagen was caught artificially tricking its cars’ ECU electronic brains into lowering these in lab tests to meet ever stricter emissions laws, sparking the emissions scandal that broke in autumn 2015).
[h2]Future of diesel cars in the UK[/h2]Authorities worldwide are drawing up roadmaps to clean up internal combustion engines (ICE), as petrol and diesel cars enter their twilight years. Some countries, including Great Britain, have made grandiose pledges to phase out ICE entirely by 2040, but the reality is that most economies will still rely on fossil fuels for many years, decades even, to come.

If you consider the oil refinery infrastructure and the sheer volume of diesel vehicles on British roads (the SMMT tells CAR magazine there are 13.8 million diesel cars, vans and lorries registered today), you realise that the fuel cannot simply be abolished overnight. The country simply cannot switch wholesale from or to any one fuel source, whether that’s petrol, diesel, electricity or hydrogen. This will be a phased paradigm shift, most observers agree, rather than an overnight change.
Our forecast is that diesel will continue as part of the energy mix for many years to come (albeit with a falling market share), but will continue to clean up its act with the latest technology. Future legislation in Europe will impose ever-tougher emissions controls on cars that do burn fuel. So you can expect future Euro 7 and, eventually, Euro 8 laws to clamp down on pollutants even further, meaning you can in fact buy a modern diesel car with confidence for some years to come.

Car Magazine
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/motoring-issues/should-i-buy-a-diesel-car-uk-tax-scrappage-ban/

R
 
Could not agree more,
I don't think lithium ion is the answer it's almost as bad as nuclear waste, technology on the battery front needs to take a huge leap forward
 
I disagree.. diesel will be gone and very soon... yes there will be some old cars around until banned outright but there will be no new cars on the forecourt within the next 10 years, if that? No manufacturer will be making them, petrol will follow. I predict that in my lifetime the only IC engined cars in the UK will be historic cars which are currently exempt, whether they get through the changes unscathed is an unknown. we will all know soon enough..
 
PSH said:
I disagree.. diesel will be gone and very soon... yes there will be some old cars around until banned outright but there will be no new cars on the forecourt within the next 10 years, if that? No manufacturer will be making them, petrol will follow. I predict that in my lifetime the only IC engined cars in the UK will be historic cars which are currently exempt, whether they get through the changes unscathed is an unknown. we will all know soon enough..



It'll be like Brexit.....and the alledged bans will drag on for years as reality hits home !

Currently Only 1% of new car sales are electric vehicles, and as the article suggests there are nearly 14 Million diesel powered vehicles on our roads, this will take some doing and a lot of time and money to
not only get rid of these vehicles, but also for every owner and user to replace them.

I predict there will be Zero emission Combustion engines designed and fitted to new cars far quicker than implementing the huge issues involved with attempting to totally rid them..


"Internal combustion engines are going to be in play for a long time to come - hopefully we will be burning stuff that is renewable.”
https://www.commercialfle...orrect-after-treatment

R
 
A big German Automotive Specialist is working hard on a Solution:
Bosch CEO Denner also calls for transparency on fuel consumption and CO2 emissions[/h2]Unprecedented emissions: NOx 10 times lower than limits set for 2020
[*]New Bosch technology retains advantage with regard to fuel consumption and environmental impact[*]Denner: "There’s a future for diesel. Soon, emissions will no longer be an issue.”[/LIST]

https://www.bosch-presse.de/pressportal/de/en/breakthrough-new-bosch-diesel-technology-provides-solution-to-nox-problem-155524.html

bz1802-en-s18-19-diesel-uebersetzung_img_h540.jpg


R
 
PSH said:
I disagree.. diesel will be gone and very soon... yes there will be some old cars around until banned outright but there will be no new cars on the forecourt within the next 10 years, if that? No manufacturer will be making them, petrol will follow. I predict that in my lifetime the only IC engined cars in the UK will be historic cars which are currently exempt, whether they get through the changes unscathed is an unknown. we will all know soon enough..
Maybe in central london, but probably not even there when the shops are empty. As an aside I was reading about how the speed limit was going up to 75mph earlier, front page news on a paper from January 1969 ;)
 
944Turbo said:
PSH said:
I disagree.. diesel will be gone and very soon... yes there will be some old cars around until banned outright but there will be no new cars on the forecourt within the next 10 years, if that? No manufacturer will be making them, petrol will follow. I predict that in my lifetime the only IC engined cars in the UK will be historic cars which are currently exempt, whether they get through the changes unscathed is an unknown. we will all know soon enough..
Maybe in central london, but probably not even there when the shops are empty. As an aside I was reading about how the speed limit was going up to 75mph earlier, front page news on a paper from January 1969 ;)



London plans a total ban on all vehicles except electric IIRC by 2022, this will include hybrids unless they can cover the distance while in the city using electric power only, plans are afoot for other cities to follow.. eventually this will be the norm across the country, certainly in my lifetime.. Manufacturers will stop producing any vehicles with an IC engine long before the 2040 deadline, which BTW is probably going to be brought forward to 2030 as MP's are trying to force this now. Landrover have already committed to stop all diesel production in less than 2 years, this from a company that is predominately 'Diesel'

There are too many people dying from IC pollution for it to be ignored any longer, it will happen.. diesel first, how long petrol has is an unknown, certainly for London less than 2 years although I suspect that this will change to much sooner.


 
But are they really dying from IC pollution? It may be a contributing factor in people who are already sick, but those who live in the remote countryside don't outlive those in city centres by any appreciable margin (not until the city dwellers start getting run down by electric vehicles anyway!). Once the novelty of electric vehicles wears off I can see them being less popular, especially once the price of charging them starts having road taxes added in. I admit my only experience is with a Zoe (not a fan) so I don't have anything hi-end to compare it with, but I generally quite like small petrol cars the Zoe should compete with.
Tony

 
So what about the massive pollution making the batteries causes, oh of course that's fine its all done in third world countries where we don't give a crap who we poison.

who is going to fund swapping 14 million oil burners for EV that no one can charge up, I live in Epping forest Council Area, currently there is not ONE charging point available on the streets, this Electric crap is just there to make the car firms **** loads of money and the politicians that go along with the bull****e,

my car park is 50 metres from my house, how the hell am I supposed to charge a car up, the UK will be just about as ready for EV move over in 2030 as we are for Bexit, not at all

and just to keep the thread on track, the Taycan is dam Ugly and at 100k very expensive
 
Yes, they are dying from air pollution, the point is that air pollution today, 50% of which is caused by cars, most of that (40%, so 4/5ths) by diesel kills between 28,000 to 36,00 people across the entire UK each year, this is last years figures which are a big jump from 2015. It shortens everyone's life, this is a fact. In London IIRC this equates to 4,000 premature deaths each year (some estimates put this figure much higher) with those still living having their health affected/reduced. Electric is not a fab, it's not going to go away, it will most likely be the only form of transport in my lifetime, not just in the UK but EU wide too, I'm sure the US will hang on for dear life but have to concede eventually, in fact, the EU will be, and is, far more stringent on it than us.

We are already seeing all car manufacturers moving away from IC, there will be little to no investment on new IC models within the next 5 years, if not less.

I'm sorry guys but this is and will happen, no matter how much us petrol heads stick our heads in the sand deny it.

Pete
 
Below is a contrarian view extracted from a Canadian symposium on the validity and real cost of EVs. Draw your own conclusions, and whether entirely accurate or not , the information is at least thought-provoking .


" Since electric cars do not use gasoline, they do not participate in paying gasoline tax / gallon sold , a measure enacted to help to maintain your roads and bridges. They will use the roads, but will not pay for their maintenance!
Ever since the advent of electric cars, the REAL cost per mile has never been discussed. All you ever hear is the mpg in terms of gasoline, with no mention of the cost of electricity.
Electricity has to be one of the least efficient ways to power cars, yet it is being shoved down your throats. Glad somebody finally put engineering and math to paper.
A British Columbia Hydro executive was quoted as saying: "If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, you have to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. Many houses are equipped with only 100 amp service. On a small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a Tesla. If even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded."
This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Your residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as your genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are you being urged to buy these things and replace your reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but you will also have to renovate your entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until you're so far down this dead end road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS!' and a shrug.
We drove a Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and concluded this : Four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. When calculated, the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles. It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.
According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned. If you pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile. So the gasoline powered car costs about $20,000, while the Volt costs $46,000-plus.. "

I have neither the time, nor interest to check the math described above, but I think the hype and politicized promotion of EVs , have obscured a lot of the realities associated with their ownership and use.
 
So just how do you decide that it’s definitely diesel cars and vans and lorries that kill that many people, are they going to ban booze and fags they kill even more

where are the definitive figures the actual proof, not conjecture or guess work

cows produce more green house gas than all the motors On the planet, don’t see them getting emissions filters anytime soon



 
I didn't decide anything, government statistics and folk with much more know-how than I, did.. look up 'Kings College' for their reports over the years.. it's all out there if you care to look....no Tesla for me Paul... I'll keep going in the old girl for as long as possible...I think my body with give out long before petrol disappears...:)
 
Sorry if you got the wrong end of the stick "you” was a generalisation not you personally

i agree the data data is out there but I don’t believe most of it, the findings cover the last 25 years, but it was only 10 years ago the government was running a scrappage scheme for petrol cars so everyone bought the then preferred diesels

they then shoved extra duty on the fuel because they were loosing money due the mpg figures doubling

it took 50+ years to work out that asbestos was killing folk and still is

i don’t believe all the hype when there are other options

the minister of transport has a pile of shares in solar power and his old school buddies own the wind farm companies

when thus his is burnt out there will be something new
 
I have to agree with Martin on this one, I hope to god we don’t have our petrol cars taken away one day but although I and everyone understands that car fumes in general are bad for human health, there’s so many more that we are subjected to where the government all over the world know there killing us , cigeretes and drink are the main ones that discust me as instead of banning it when there was a big hoo haa feed years back now about cigeretes, what does the government do..... put the prices up thinking the intelligent people in the world won’t realise that it was a brilliant chance to pretend there actually helping those who face cancer by smoking heavily by putting the price up by a few quid instead of banning it! ( of course they won’t ban it, there’s too much money in it)

they don’t care about us unfortunately it’s just excuses to make the next money making boom. The one I really have a problem with lately the more I look into it for the past year and a ahalf are what about the diseases there on purposely giving us and killing us with in spraying us every single day with chemtrails! Who pays for the fuel for 100’s of those planes flights everyday let alone the mixture of chemicals and aluminium they spray us with not only to breath in but fall and seap into out soal into our food products , rain ect ect .
Why do you think there’s more and more cancer and diseases illnesses and crazy weather , monsunes ect the answer is in the sky just look up!

All this rubish about there trying trying to help us by electric vehicles really annoyed the hell out of me because there The arseholes giving us all these diseases through the sky withought any products we buy that are bad for our health that they don’t ban.

One reason for the chemtrails in my opinion is the pharmaceutical business is the most money making business the government possesses and therefore they will only carry on growing and continuing if we all get ill, and let’s fave it the proof is in the Pudin, I’m 38 and never ever remember myself my family around me back in the day ever ever being as ill and catching as many infections and colds as are happening today!

Think i I may have gone on one so I’ll now shut up!

Daniel
 
The 'science' behind the polution deaths is a theory and a very patchy one.

https://www.google.com/am...e-environment-39129270

Also
"air pollution in the UK?
Fine particulates and nitrogen oxides have been falling steadily for decades, and are about a quarter of what they were in 1970.

trends-uk-so2.png
Trends in air-pollution in the UK?—?from DEFRA 2016
So the ‘crisis’ in the UK is not because pollution is getting worse, but because there is more known about the potential harms, particularly from nitrogen oxides. But the UK is not representative of the rest of the world: many rapidly growing cities have experienced dramatically rising pollution levels."


Tony
 
I’m glad I’m on the correct side of the road

but it will all change again, it’s not about pollution and health it’s about the normal thing money
 
While the jury’s out I’m hedging my bets. Hence my garage contains petrol, diesel and electric cars. But given in there currently I’ve got 36 petrol cylinders (including the 4 in the 944), 13 diesel cylinders, and a range of only 1 mile on pure electricity, more realistically I’m in the petrol camp.
 

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