Potential new owner - 991 GTS (manual)

[Masher]

Hi all. I’m a long term Porsche owner having started with a 964 before moving onto a Cayman R and a 997 GTS. I have just sold the Cayman R but still have the 997 GTS. Always had manual (weekend) cars and cannot see that changing if moving to a 991 which narrows down the field somewhat.
I am considering buying a 991 GTS manual and welcome some thoughts on what makes a great 991 GTS.
First big question is 3.8L NA or 3.0L turbo?
My thinking is I should head for a 3.8 NA since it is an engine I know and love already. I have driven a 3.0L turbo 992 at the PEC and thought it a truly amazing car which was gripping wonderfully on a November day with 1 inch of standing water so not sure I was giving a critical appraisal of the engine so much as the electronics helping me hold it on the island! Thoughts welcome on which engine, especially from those of you who made a conscious decision one way or the other.
Next is options. Anything critical? I’m hearing PDCC and rear steer are not worth fussing over (some review articles) but what is critical? Thoughts welcome please. Ceramics? Front lift? BOSE?...
Then the personal preference. For me, I like a weekend car to to ‘talk to me’. I like bright or loud colours (Cayman was Peridot green and I loved that), I like aero kits, bucket seats are lovely and a leather dashboard feels special (have I narrowed down my choice enough?). Ideally non-sunroof - does the weight of the sunroof change the driving dynamics much?
I tried to purchase the orange car at RPM but was pipped to it by someone in Malaysia (really!!). For me this was everything I wanted from the exterior and driving options point of view though the interior would not have been my ideal (no leather dash, no rear seats, painted dash and console, white dials, basic stereo...) but I was looking to work on that over time.
I’d appreciate any thoughts and comments As well as any info on cars for sale (beyond the obvious Pistonheads / Autotrader adverts). MUST be manual!
Also interested in other forums or resources 991 owners use. For the cayman here was a Cayman OC site which was nicely focused.
Cheers Mick.

 

[Brybentley]

Literally can't wait for the replies from the "experts". Im just going to sit back an eye roll at these

 

[Lancerlot]

Literally can't wait for the replies from the "experts". Im just going to sit back an eye roll at these

You're correct, dear boy - so here we go! []

You're considering at a GT car and looking at sports-orientated options, right? So clearly it's a performance focussed specification you're after.

If you are a left-foot braking exponent, go for the turbo, otherwise it's 3.8 N/A for better trail braking and cleaner pick-up characteristics. Forget the sunroof (weighty, reduces torsional rigidity and is something else to go wrong). Forget front axle lift and fancy sound systems (not worth having in a 911 with its road noise). Definitely, go for RWS, PDCC and PCCB's if available, but don't make them a deal breaker.

Take a close look at the boots and maybe budget for a change of rubber-ware, since this is the most significant improvement you can make to the car.

Personally I wouldn't bother with manual transmission either. I always found waggling a stick around was utterly time consuming, old technology. PDK is faster and better at choosing the correct gearing for almost all circumstances! [] However, that's been debated ad nauseum here for many years! []

Otherwise why not look at a GT3? For a few more quid this would provide all the motoring experience you will ever need!

I'll shut up now!

Regards,

Clive

 

[Masher]

I love waggling a stick around - gives me a sense of achievement. PDK makes me feel like I am in a games simulator. As you say, debated ad nauseum.
GT3... Given my predilection for manual we're into £125k vs £75k for a GTS. More than a few pennies. Granted PDK models now sub £100k. Sounds like you are at odds with Walter Rohrl ref rear steer - curious to know what you like about it. I've not driven with it (nor will I for months the way things are going) so have no comparison.

 

[Brybentley]

Come on guys, dont let me down.

Only 1 expert reply so far and that was far too sensible [] (Agree with most of it).

 

[Lancerlot]

Sounds like you are at odds with Walter Rohrl ref rear steer - curious to know what you like about it. I've not driven with it (nor will I for months the way things are going) so have no comparison.

Haven't seen what he says, but he IS one of the leading exponents on the planet of hustling, a basically understeering, car quickly around a bend.The rest of us mere mortals usually need a bit more help! []

RWS effectively shortens the wheel base and aids turn in. Most high-end sports and supercars now incorporate it as standard and once the technology is available, it makes sense to use it. Here's an example of a 992 with RWS being driven briskly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpL1eoZW11w ! []

Regards,

Clive

 

[Masher]

Thanks Clive. He looks to be a bit of a driving god! He'd beat me in a mini if I was in a 991 GTS []

 

[ralphmusic]

Sounds like you are at odds with Walter Rohrl ref rear steer - curious to know what you like about it. I've not driven with it (nor will I for months the way things are going) so have no comparison.

Haven't seen what he says, but he IS one of the leading exponents on the planet of hustling, a basically understeering, car quickly around a bend.The rest of us mere mortals usually need a bit more help! []

RWS effectively shortens the wheel base and aids turn in. Most high-end sports and supercars now incorporate it as standard and once the technology is available, it makes sense to use it. Here's an example of a 992 with RWS being driven briskly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpL1eoZW11w ! []

Regards,

Clive

Tim Schrick also uses power to rotate the car...

 

[PJ63]

I had a 991.1 GTS (3.8 N/A) which I loved & have also driven the 991.2 GTS (3.0 Turbo) which although is a better, quicker & quieter car, I personally prefer the 991.1 over the 991.2. But I would take everyone's opinion with a pinch of salt & go & drive both for yourself, as we all like different things & you need to go with what excites you, so have fun looking.

 

[findtom.com]

Not sure I’m in anyway an expert, but I have had both a 991.1GTS and a 991.2GTS and offer these thoughts:
Manual 991.2 is a better gearbox.
991.1 is slower.
991.2 is faster…
991.1 makes (lots) more noise.
991.2 is fast as %^&$.
991.2 has the better PCM, (I know, not a big deal but thought I would add it).

If it was a daily driver with a PDK, I would buy a 991.2 (which is what I did). However, as a weekend only car the 991.1 is more of an experience simple because of the noise. Of course you could add a new exhaust to a 991.2 which now that I think about it, is a really good idea. The manual gearbox on the later car is quite an improvement.

Options that I could not live without, (having now had 7 - 911’s, OK I might be an addict, so take these with a pinch of salt):
Sports Exhaust.
Sports Chrono, (mainly for the engine mounts).
10mm Sports Suspension, (was NOT standard on the 991.1)!
PSP – (Just kidding, I hate, HATE PSP).
Sports Plus Seats as a minimum.
Rear Steer. Not convinced a mortal like me needs it, but it must be better right? Right??

Options that are worth paying for but if a car doesn’t have them I might still buy it anyway:
Bucket Seats, with rear seat delete.
PCCB.
Bose.
LEDs (they not only work really well, they make a 991 look even better).
GTS interior (grey over red).

 

[Lancerlot]

GT3... Given my predilection for manual we're into £125k vs £75k for a GTS. More than a few pennies. Granted PDK models now sub £100k. Sounds like you are at odds with Walter Rohrl ref rear steer - curious to know what you like about it. I've not driven with it (nor will I for months the way things are going) so have no comparison.

Just had a quick peek on Pistonheads. There are currently 125 x 991 GT3's being offered there, including a manual at £83K. True, it's LHD but shouldn't be a worry if it's a weekend car. []

Don't give up! After this lockdown, there are bound to be any amount for sale in your price range!

Regards,

Clive

 

[findtom.com]

Hmmmm GT3, now that is an idea.. But of the 125 on PH only 20 are manuals and they start at £120k.

 

[rgbower]

try out a T... I tried a 991.2 GTS, but it was too sophisticated, quiet and (for me) away too fast...

 

[Carlton]

l choose a 911.2 Manual over the 991.1, basically for the same statement As above from findtom, such as:

• Better manual gearbox
• Better PCM
• Rear wheel steering (added benefit of the tighter turning circle)
• Heated Steering wheel + Chrono Unit
• The front bumper + door handles + rear lights (personal preference)
• Better performance

Negatives with the 991.2

• The exhaust note is better with the 991.1

So for me it was a no brainier the 991.2

I spec'd the Bose sound system, but I confess I don't have it on, I prefer the noise the engine make better

 

[Bobby78]

Hi there my first ever Porsche turned out to be a 991.1 gts.

All I can say is driving it at any speed is awesome. Mine is a poverty spec, but it was one of the cheapest at the time with 2 1/2 years of warranty still on it, and deffo not a PEC car. I quite like the cleanliness of the interior vs the gts interior. It is absurdly thirsty though and very noisy. I don’t have the 18 ways but the seats are incredibly comfortable. The exhaust note is genuinely addictive and amongst the best I’ve heard in any 911. Bose is very boomy and the highs aren’t clear, and I love my music so a bit disappointed in that respect. I don’t find the interior particularly dark despite not having a sunroof. I personally love the proportions of the 991 and 430bhp in a 2 wheel wide hipped 911, pretty much my dream come true. Hope this helps.

 

[Masher]

Thanks for all the comments above. As is usual, some slightly diverging opinions but all of them helpful for a prospective purchaser like me.
Just had a look at 'how many left'.
I thought the 997 GTS manual was rare but... given numbers bobble around a bit the numbers below are the best estimations:
End Q4 2013 there are 95 911 GTS manual = all 997 GTS
End Q3 2016 there are 129 911 GTS manual = assumed 95 997 GTS (might have lost one or two) suggesting just 34 991 3.8 GTS manuals exist in the UK
End Q4 2016 the number increases to 138 total (were the first turbo GTS's arriving then?) with steady increases from that point to a new total of 231 by end Q4 2019. Using the previous maths suggests 102 991 3.0T GTS sold.
With such low numbers it must be close to reality that they all have unique specifications and being too picky will result in a long time looking for one!
Reading more reviews the 991 GTS series of cars, they do seem to be highly regarded. Looking forward to owning one (one day).

 

[Maverick1]

As these replies show lots of different opinions but I do agree with Clive i have a GTS 991.1 with PDCC it sounds insane and there is no body roll whatsoever everyone I take out is blown away by the experience
Forget sunroof & Heavy seats I have the upgraded lights which are superb its a Porsche save the other gadgets for the daily drive car
I do have Bose but the engine just dominates the drive

Makes me smile every journey !!

 

[Spackers]

Agree with Yoorkypost. I've a 991.2S and the engine is spectacular - tremendous torque, no lag, sounds great. Also very good fuel consumption. Manual is the one - you get a real sense of achievement getting the most out of this amazing piece of engineering. The 7 speed takes a bit of getting used to, but is a great gearbox. You need to be quite precise changing down. The closer ratio with the Turbo torque is a great combination.

Options I've found useful are: SSE - significantly improves sound, Glass sunroof, Sports Chrono, Reversing camera ( a must having tried it). I wish I'd chosen the front lift option. I have grazed the plastic under the front spoiler a couple of times on speed bumps or steep drives.

 

[baxster]

Im no expert but originally test drove the 991.1 GTS back to back with a 991.2 C4S and a 991.2 C2 GTS. It was an instant decision and my preference was the 991.2. Since my initial test drive Ive owned three 991.2 GTS's and all PDK. The 3.0 turbo is a great engine and it only looses out to the sound of the 3.8 in the higher rev range but more than makes up for it with the pops on the overrun.
Given that the two cars are now pretty similar in price I would say that the the newer tech and looks win but Im guessing that the 3.8 will fare better residual wise which is not really a revelation on here.
I personally prefer driving a manual car 90% of the time but the gear changes are so quick on the PDK that its difficult to ignore.
All personal preference of course but to throw something else into the mix my first 991.2 GTS ran on PASM -10mm and that was a better handling car in most conditions. Very rare option to find on a used car now as aesthetically the lower cars look better.

 

[rgbower]

...all the T's have PASM, and a big fraction are manual and have rear wheel steer. I gave up trying to find that spec on a GTS... so annoying that Porsche won't let you fit the official power-kit.