PPI: Painted panels. Should I buy?

[Guest]

New member here. Hello. I am considering a 97 C4S 32k miles. I had it go through a PPI with a local Porsche specialist. He said mechanically the car is solid. Compression test showed 190-195 in all cylinders. No oil leaks. But the bad news was that he thought the left front fender and the left door had been painted. The car was represented as no accidents, no paint or body work. The dealer, when told of this, lost his composure and freaked out and said he thought I was implying he was not being forthright. Actually that was not my intention. I was going to walk, but he apologized. I suggested having an inspection with a body shop. I found a shop that specializes in porsches and they said that they would be happy to inspect, and it would only take 20 minutes.

What would you do. It is a good price. I suspect the dealer bought a car that he didn't know had been worked on. I plan to drive the car several days a week (not on my short drive days) and keep for a long time. But resale value is an issue, as this is/will be a classic. If the car is discovered to have been repainted, or if the door and fenders are replacements and then repainted, is this enough to walk away?

Thank you. []

 

[Diver944]

It's my view that most 10 year old cars will have had some paint, at some point in their life. A wing and a door would not be unusual for a low speed shunt, or even a parking scrape.

I think you are wise to get it properly inspected by a bodyshop, and if they give the chassis a clean bill of health then I would have no qualms about buying the car.

 

[Pickled Piper]

I agree, it is unusual to find a ten year old car without some repaint work. Providing it's been done properly it wouldn't put me of.

Your description of how the dealer reacted when you put it to him reminds me of how the selling dealer behaved when I pointed out some paint work issues on the car I was buying. Perhaps it's the standard response when they haven't got an answer? It must be in the salesman's training manual!

pp

 

[Guest]

I agree with the above, most cars of this age will have had paint.

But make sure you get an HPI check done, these cars seem to pick up category D write-off status with relatively little damage, and while the car may be perfecty good the cat D will affect the value and ease of resale.

Cheers

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the advice thus far! By the way, what does HPI stand for? And what is category D? Can you tell I am a new guy?

I am really looking forward to my first Porsche. I hope this all works out.

 

[Richard_Hamilton]

Probably not terms you are familiar with if you are from Seattle.

HPI is a UK company who store details of finance and insurance history on vehicles.
Catagory D is a car that has been a total loss insurance claim, but can be repaired and put back on the road legally.

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: SeattlePorsche

Thanks for the advice thus far! By the way, what does HPI stand for? And what is category D?

The HPI register is a UK thing, I don't know what it stands for. It is maintained by the insurance companies. If a car is damaged beyond economic repair, it is declared a Total Loss and written off. In other words the owner gets a cheque back instead of his car.
There are 4 catagories of Total Loss from A (most serious) to D (minor).
A - Car and all components must be destroyed
B - Components can be reused in another car
C - The car can be repaired and put back on the road after a thorough inspection
D - The car can be repaired and put back on the road without an inspection

 

[angry]

As above,and dont worry i was a 1st timer 3 years ago(cant really afford...still paying for it)but i dont regret.
My 993 is not the best you will find,has poor service history and paintwork and is fine....its been used and abused and has not let me down.
They are built to take the punishment,not to be molycuddled as most owners do.(not on this forum,dont want to start any fights[])
Enjoy.

 

[zwhitea]

HPI is a report that tells you whether a car has had anything dodgy in it's history - ie whether there is any finance outstanding on it, accident damage, stolen/recovered etc. Go to http://www.hpicheck.com/ or do a search for it.
Catagory D means that a car has been accident damaged and written off by the insurance company. Catagory D I believe is the lightest damage indicator - means that the car was damaged but repairable and it was written off because it wasn't worth the insurance company paying out. More major damage comes under Catagory C and gets worse at B! If the car is registered as Cat D, that will have a significant effect on the car's value because you can never be sure of the original damage and the subsequent repair job.
If you're buying from a dealer, he should be able to provide you with an HPI check report. However, having seen a report that only had a minimal amount of info on it from a dealer I was looking at buying a car from, I went and did my own and I found out more info that helped me work out why the car was cheap! If in doubt, do the check yourself, it costs about £30-40 I think.

Hope that helps...

Ruth

(Hmmmm... that'll teach me to get side tracked whilst posting and not check the updated post before I click ok! Sorry for the duplication!)

 

[Guest]

Hello Seattle Porsche,

I was searching for 6 months for a car and took an ex mech / body painter / trader with me every time as he was a friend who was willing to help as much as he could.
Every car I saw had had paint, you can guarantee virtually every car from a dealer has its nose cone repaintd, if it has no stone chips its definatley been painted. But this is very common and no one would be bothered about it, infact its a bonus if painted well.

Regarding your door, basicly if its only a minor bit of paint work ( keep in mind to do a good job they have to spray the whole panel) ie: a sractch, parking accident etc.. it should be worth just as much as if it never had any damage. But a good paintshop should easily be able to tell you if its been in a minor accident or a good wallop.

If it has panels changed I would walk away, just me but that means a good wallop, normally panels never match up perfectly and small gaps, compare it to the other side. If panels have been swapped then I would walk away and just look for another, plenty out there ( you will always think about it when you wash the car, if your like me).

Dealers in my opinion always know if a cars had paint, its the first thing they look at in a part ex. I went to see a Ferrari and it had lots of paint, my friend said to the dealer this has seen some action, his reply dunno mate, I just sell them. Next 20mins he says look at this cosworth, best I have ever seen, never had any paint before, peferct example.

Anyway if it is just a minor bump, dont worry about it, theres not many cars that have never had any paint before. I amazes me how many private sellers think there cars are perfect and never been repainted, its normally not the case.

Regards, David.

 

[bobafett]

Im just about to have mine in for a refreshed front bumper and turbo s spoiler fitted, so dont right off the owner wanting to address any blemishes he or she may not be happy with. People do think paintwork and accident/crashed go together, in some cases thats not the case, I would like to see a 993 that has never had any paintwork done.

More important, is it a good job......because finding a tottaly original 993 thats had no paint is virtually impossible. Did you know Some brand new cars that get damaged in transit have seen new paintwork!!

 

[968er]

I had a full body respray on one of my previous Porsches, so do not think because it has been painted this is bad.

 

[Guest]

Well the body shop expert told me the car is a very good buy. It has had the left rear panel painted, not the left front and left door as was suspected by the mechanic. But the left rear panel had not been replaced, so he supects it was a small fender bender. In addition, this guy was so nice that he refused to let me pay him a cent. He told me he too was "an enthusiast" and he was happy to do it.

Oh, and he said that the panel had been painted properly, ie a very good job.

Well, we'll see if I can close this deal. It appears the consensus is that a little bit of paint is not a big deal on a 10 yr old car.

Thank you for the advice! I very much appreciate it.

James
Seattle, Washington

 

[laura]

Hope you close the deal. It soumds great. We had a very similar experience to you. Found a car we liked the sound of in the private adds and asked a respected independent dealer to do a check on it. He reported that it had had a new offside rear wing but it was an old repair and first class. The paint was a perfect match, shut lines were even, so how did he know??? On the original wing on the nearside you could see the spot welds evenly spaced under the engine cover. On the new wing these had been ground out leaving a perfectly smooth finish!! We've had the car for 18months now. It drives beautifully and nobody would guess about the wing - unless the engine cover was open of course [][].

Hope you get your car

Charles & Laura

 

[Guest]

Update:

Well I told the dealer that I was ready to wire him the money. It is friday and he conveniently did not call back until late afternoon. Can't wire money after 1:30 or so here in the US. So he now says since he doesn't have any money, he doesn't consider the deal closed, and he wants to show the car to someone else. I am thinking at this point what kind of a dork businessman am I dealing with. Every instinct in my body was telling me to verbally abuse this guy and walk away. But I didn't. I spent $250 for the PPI. I suppose I will just wait and be patient. I am reminding myself that this is only a car, and there will be others. I suspect he is just trying to instigate a bidding war with me and someone else over the car. Well car sales is not my line of work, but not exactly the way I would conduct myself if I were in this line of work.