Pre-purchase questions

[Ephraim]

Hi all,

I'm entirely new to the world of Porsches (aside from having had a brief rack around in a friend's Boxter), and so have a few questions. I'm currently running a '97 Toyota Celica and am looking to change it in the next few weeks, with 2.5-3 grand to spend I was looking at Alfa GTVs and the like, until one of my work colleagues mentioned that her other half was looking to sell his 944. It's an '85 Lux in Red, with 95k on the clock, belts changed at 92k, and a new clutch slave cylinder recently fixed (although I only have the vaguest understanding of what this is!), and he's asking £2750 for it with 6 months T&T.

I'm going to take a look at it on monday, and take it out for a quick run, but thought I'd ask a few questions first.

I'm told that there's a little rust behind one of the front wheels. How seriously should I take this? I appreciate that it depends on how bad the rust is, but should I treat it as a deal breaker, or accept that in my price range rust is going to be ever-present?

I'm planning to use it as a daily driver (or at least a mostly daily driver), and I understand that this is not a problem for 944s. Are there any insurers that deal in classics, but without mileage limits? I can get it insured for £700 or so on a regular policy (I'm in my mid thirties, but with a short but exemplary driving history), and need to be able to do about 14k per year, but can I save any money by going classic car insurance rather than regular?

Lastly, and apologies for the barrage of questions, are there any decent pre-purchase inspection companies in the West Midlands (I'm based in Warwickshire and the car is in Coventry), that prefereably won't charge me a massive fee? I'm happy to spend up to about £200 having it checked out, but I've seen some specialists that quote prices in excess of 300 notes!

Anyway, thanks in advance for the answers.

John

 

[richthomas]

For Cov, you could try PCT cars next to Autobahn on the A45 to do the inspection, but I have never used them. Sutton Coldfield OPC are good, I used to have my S2 serviced there. You should be able to have an inspection done there for little over £100 give them a call to find out. They do tend to see the cars so know what to look for.

Rust wise, if it is behind the rear wheel, it sounds less problematic as it is just the rear arch panel. Obviously it depends how bad, but it could be a simple case of stip and cure to cut out and weld. If confined to that area could be from cheap to £200 to paint the bottom of the rear corner I guess. Look at the sills under the door, especially the seam below the lower rear corners for bubbles. You can look inside the sills via the plastic vent in the B pillar - open the door you will see a plastic grille - pops out easily. Also check the bottom corners of the front wings, these are prone to go first as they get chipped by stones. Above the rear numberplate around the lights is another classic area.

Check damp carpets for sunroof leaks. They are great when they work, a pain when they don't. Rear hatches can rattle - pins can be replaced or adjusted. Wheel alignment can make a big difference to how these drive, and as they get older tends to get neglected as it isn't cheap.

Brakes are relitivley cheap on the lux, so disc/ pad replacment need not be a deal breaker. Check recent service. Make sure all elecrics and heater work, there is quite a lot in there to go wrong. Electric windows can be slow, not too much of a problem.

Suspension can get expensive, so check bushes and ball joints. 85 could be late 85, is it an oval dash? If so make sure wishbones are OK, these are big money although some repair kits are avaliable cheaply for DIY. If power steering check pump by rack behind drivers front wheel. If it leaks it can be rebuilt DIY easily for £10. I did on both my cars - much cheaper than £160 for a new pump.

Classic oil leaks are the front engine seals - these can be changed when doing the belts. Also rear engine. Check if water pump was done with belts.

944s are perfect daily drivers, I had a lux and an S2 latterly for 4 years as a daily driver, snow, rain, all weathers. Very pracical with the hatch, and rear seats are useful on occasion. Look after it, it will look after you

 

[poprock]

That's a fairly steep price for an early Lux with a square dashboard. Fair enough if it's in very nice condition, but you could easily find a good oval-dash model for the same money if you look around a bit. They have a long list of little refinements over the older version which you'd probably appreciate if you're using the car as a daily driver.

 

[Nouveau]

Just a Note on the Alfa GTv ..Steer Clear (Leeks,Electrics, High Service costs ETC)Too many problems to list!
However, I did have the Fiat Coupe 20V after which I had for a little over two years Never had a Problem,... I highly recommend them!

 

[xenon]

Seems overpriced. PCT no longer do inspections as I found out when I sold my S2 (I'm in Coventry). They apparently inspected a car some time ago (some classic, not sure what) which threw a rod as the new owner picked it up. He sued and they were lumbered so they no longer do inspections.

 

[Diver944]

Shirleys in Meriden may still do pre purchase inspections.

If it is a square dash car then it needs to be in really tip top condition at that price. Check the recent history very carefully to see if it's been looked after properly, the belts should be changed every 3-4 years regardless of mileage and the water pump every 2-3 belt changes.

 

[Diver944]

I forgot to add that Peter Morgan (or one of his staff) do inspections anywhere in the country:

http://www.petermorgan.org.uk/index.html

At £300 + vat it may be over your budget though

 

[Ephraim]

Thanks for all the good advice thus far.

Assuming that it's in decent nick, how much should I be looking to pay? I've looked around pistonheads and autotrader, and I'm struggling to find any reasonable idea of prices, as they seem to vary quite a lot.

Cheers.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Assuming it's in really good condition with good recent history that points to no looming major bills, square-dash struggle to better £2k and oval-dash £2.5k.

Remember, the prices advertised are often optimistic and expect the "sold for" price to be lower than the "for sale" price. Old sports car prices are suffering massively from the credit crisis so a value a few months ago is completely unrealistic now.

Allow at least £1k in the bank for servicing over the first year on a good car to be safe. All in all it's a good time to snap up a bargain!

 

[Diver944]

The prices vary so much because the cars vary so much. With cars this old you really must buy on condition, and for square dash cars a ratty old heap can be bought for hndreds. A very good condition car that's been looked after and has no rust will be over £2000, and proper concours one's would be double that. Note there will only be a handful of concours cars in the country.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Note there will only be a handful of concours cars in the country.

One of which was unsold at under £2k months ago, since when the values have only dropped! []

 

[Ephraim]

Thanks for all the advice. I went along to see it and take a test drive. Whilst it seemed mechanically sound, the paintwork was in pretty poor condition, the belts were changed 3000miles ago, but that was 4 or 5 years ago, and I couldn't get on with how low the steering wheel was in relation to my knees. I understand that the 85.5 models solved this (I'm not a tall bloke, but the pre-oval wheel really was low!), and so I guess I'll start a proper hunt for a decent nick oval dash model.

 

[poprock]

I have a good black '87 one for sale, but it's in Glasgow. Drop me a line on tony@typescape.com if you want all the details.

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: Ephraim

Whilst it seemed mechanically sound, the paintwork was in pretty poor condition, the belts were changed 3000miles ago, but that was 4 or 5 years ago, .

Sounds like a particularly unloved example [&o]

These cars have excellent paintwork but years of neglect will take their toll. If it was metallic then it should have a decent layer of clearcoat on top of the paint that 'should' come up nicely with a proper machine mop. I saw a matt purple 944 driving round my town at the weekend, broke my heart, that car probably hasn't been washed [] let alone waxed in years.

Five year old belts should be changed IMMEDIATELY

I think you did the wise thing to walk away

 

[pauljmcnulty]

I think you did the wise thing to walk away

Or, in the current market it's probably worth about £500....assuming not too much rust! []