Problems with +100K miles cars?

marmalade · Aug 13, 2008

Hi all

I'm looking at buying my first 993, cost cannot be excluded as a buying factor, and I'm looking at higher mileage cars (100K plus). I have a couple of questions:

1 Are there any general addition costs that are associated/expected with this mileage as compared to say a 60K car?
2 Am I fooling myself and after, say, a couple of years, the addition expenses associated with a high miler will exceed the short term saving on the purchase price? Any experiences would be greatly appreciated.

I'm hoping to look at a couple of cars this weekend so any feedback before then would be particularly appreciated.

Thanks for your help.
Mark

burrow01 · Aug 13, 2008

Hi

Mine had an engine rebuild at 113,000 miles due to worn cams - not sure how prevalent this is, as I've never heard of anything similar ( was before I bought it)

Mine gets all the "normal" issues that 993's have, not sure if there are a higher number of them or not - Non service work I've had done is a leaking cam cover, snapped alternator belt, failed windscreen washer pump and spoiler failing to retract, new front disks, and new tyres in 3 years.

I've also had problems with the hood, but that is unique to a cab.

Other common potential items for repair between 60,000 - 100,000 miles would be clutches and suspension components.

All in all I think my running costs are pretty much aligned with that of the other owners that I see commenting here. It partly depends on the milage per year that you think you will do?

Main advice from most people would be to buy on condition and not milage - I've seen some real rough examples with 60,000 miles on the clock, and very nice looking 90-110,000 milers.

HTH

Pete

angry · Aug 13, 2008

Yes 100,000 mile cars have often had all the major replacement parts done.
Clutch
Starter
Alternator
Leads/dizzy/caps auxilary dizzy drive belt
Suspension
Brakes
Some 60,000 mile car have done a lot of sitting around or short trips and this does them no good at all.
High Mileage would not put me off at all.
Dan

Porker993 · Aug 13, 2008

Hi Mark

To answer your questions

ORIGINAL: marmalade

1 Are there any general addition costs that are associated/expected with this mileage as compared to say a 60K car?

No. I bought my car with 45,000 miles six years ago. It's now done 86,000 miles.

I spent a lot more back then, than I do now. Cam cover gaskets, clutch, suspension bushes and brakes all required replacement within a year of purchase. Nowadays all I do is put petrol in the thing.

2 Am I fooling myself and after, say, a couple of years, the addition expenses associated with a high miler will exceed the short term saving on the purchase price? Any experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Again, no. See answers above. A good high miler will have been sorted. These cars are so well made, they go on forever if properly maintained.

John Maddox · Aug 13, 2008

My 993 has had repair/maintenance costs of £17,833.30 over 13 years and 166k miles - so that is about £1400 per year.

Looked at another way, that is just 11p per mile - and that's mainly OPC as well.

I've always said to others you must use them to get the value out of them !! I am sure they need less repair if they are used frequently.

p27549 · Aug 14, 2008

In agreement with all of the above. My car has 55k and seem to be spending alot on it rather than driving it. Next hit will be a clutch.
No issue with high milage , and a good point is to buy on condition and not milage.

Johnny C · Aug 22, 2008

I bouhgt mine 3½years ago, it had 70K on the clock. First two years I had quite a few expenses, ABS replaced, dizzies, sunroof, various sensors. I had the clutch done earlier this year (at 122K). Suspension isn't a problem (yet, but I'm anticipating soonish), but the others in the list above - alternator, starter motor etc - have been done. These days it is costing me less, the first two years I was visiting 9M more than I liked but these days it's calmed down a lot, I don't think it's been towed in yet this year and it's now got 132K on the clock. Aircon doesn't work but it may just need a refill, it hasn't been hot enough in the last 2 years to use it.

In addition, as various sensors etc have been replaced, fuel consumption has improved a lot. I did get 300 miles on a tank (65l) when I bought it, a few weeks ago I got 375 miles on a tank on a run and average 350 with mostly motorway and a bit of urban driving..

There was an article on 175K+ mile 993's in '911 & Porsche World' 4 years ago, the ones they had featured had been looked after properly and were still in fine fettle.

My old 3.2 had 200K on the clock when I sold it, and was still going strong. I'd have kept it as mechanically it was bomb-proof but a few age-ralated electrical problems were appearing (cracked loom), but the car was 20 years old

I see no reason why the 993 shouldn't surpass that.

timheath · Aug 22, 2008

There are some nice straight PCGB 993s right here http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=393705

If they are properly looked after and regularly driven I think you should have no reason to worry.

sebrussellsmith · Sep 8, 2008

I am in a bit of a dilemma as the car is approaching 95k miles and it seems the previous owner left everything that would need doing to me. Should it stay or should it go!

To date I have had new clutch, new shock aborbers, front discs, caliper cleaning, bushes are worn out, front resprayed due to stone chips, other parts of body work repainted due to corrosion, the list goes on and on and so do the payments!. (last service £1300) oh and corrosion on the door sills!

Someone mentioned they have very little issues with their high mileage car. When will things start to settle down? or maybe they wont!. Help.

Mark Elder · Sep 9, 2008

Shame to sell it now you have done all that work.

>>(last service £1300)<<

Where did you get that done!?
(or maybe that included some of the work) - if not perhaps look for an indie with less desire to empty your wallet. Depends where you are...

oliverjamesthomas · Sep 9, 2008

ORIGINAL: Johnny C
There was an article on 175K+ mile 993's in '911 & Porsche World' 4 years ago, the ones they had featured had been looked after properly and were still in fine fettle.

Thanks for raising that; the Carrera 2S featured in that article is mine and is currently for sale here:

http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tm.asp?m=397124

(Shameless plug, I know............ [

])

In answer to the original question, I believe high milers are often in far better fettle than low milers because they get attention more often, when serviced correctly. In the case of my car, in the first few years of life it was in the OPC every three months or thereabouts. The only way it has clocked the miles up is for it to have been a motorway car and that is hardly the most troublesome life for these cars. Since it was retired from high mileage it has been maintained by either OPC's or Strasse and the result was that at 186,000 miles when I decided a rebuild was a good precaution, there was in fact no need to have done it. Obviously the car has had a suspension replacement and from what I can tell three clutches, but body wise it is perfect, the interior is in excellent shape and so are the rest of the mechanicals.

I've had a fantastic four and a half years with the car and the only reason I'm looking to sell it is to scratch a GT3 shaped itch. On my experience, I certainly wouldn't be put off by higher mileage.

sebrussellsmith · Sep 9, 2008

ORIGINAL: Mark Elder

Shame to sell it now you have done all that work.

>>(last service £1300)<<

Where did you get that done!?
(or maybe that included some of the work) - if not perhaps look for an indie with less desire to empty your wallet. Depends where you are...

Hi Mark,

Well service included cleaning out corrosion on brake calipers, sorting out oil coolant fan not working plus others bits and pieces. There was apparently a lot of labour involved!! Now have just had to have the front discs and pads replaced due to that vibration!! This is with a Porsche specialist in London (not main dealer) who is well known.

Some things are best kept from the Mrs!

968CSReading · Sep 12, 2008

Im going to view a car that has done over 130K but the owner tells me it had a £7K rebuild last year (at an OPC I think, hence price). The clutch wasnt done at the sametime so until I see the paperwork I cant tell what was actually carried out.

If a rebuild has taken place what do I need to make sure has been done during this? (if that makes sense).

Also, where is the VIN sticker on the 993?
Do they have a spacesaver?

How much is a replacement clutch and pads/discs at a specialist (probably Northway or similar).

Thanks

Mark Elder · Sep 12, 2008

Not sure about your rebuild question. Presumably rebuilds are very varied depending on what caused the owner to finally decide to do it.

Clutch from an indie: between 0.8 and 1.2 k
VINs are: Passenger side of windscreen (bottom), On a plate under the front of the fuel tank that you can see if you remove the carpet in the boot, and on a paper sticker on the driver's B post.
Yes they do have spacesavers and it needs to be there (part of the impact protection system)

Simon P · Sep 20, 2008

Suggest you read Peter Morgan's brilliant little book on buying 993s. Gives you some really key stuff to look out for and tells you about all the VIN numbers etc. Helped me alot when buying mine which had done about 66000. But, as with others here, the first service was a bit of a shock as the rear discs had the inside wear problem, the rear stays had rotted out on the bumper and the distributor caps needed changing . I thought I knew what I was doing but I did not pick up any of these ! Since then I have had absolutely no bother at all except for lowered suspension causing edge of tyres to catch rear wheelarch lips. Ninemeister have just rolled the wheelarches which has completely sorted this problem. Now all I need to do is sort the paint on the rear window surround! So, the sensible if a bit boring advice is get an expert to inspect it for you. Once sorted , these cars are absolutely awesome. I never quite get used to the effortless power to overtake, the sheer stopping power and the astounding way they go round corners.
Simon

Johnny C · Oct 1, 2008

When you get the clutch replaced, the flywheel usually has to be done too. You're not being bamboozled if this is done. There is an option to get a lightweight flywheel (RS IIRC), which costs a little more but last longer. Only downside is that they tend to stall very easily when cold. That can be somewhat fixed with a remap. You'll only get the benefit performance-wise if you're doing track days, you don't need to reduction in weight for normal driving.

There are plenty of posts on the board about flywheels, if you're considering it have a snoop.

968CSReading · Oct 1, 2008

Thanks for the replies. I have put an offer in on the car in light of the new clutch, brakes, 24k service and faulty aircon. I dont hold out a lot of hope but you never know.

John Maddox · Oct 2, 2008

My wife and I have just returned from a 10 day trip through France to the Swiss Alps and back - 1600 miles without any problems whatsoever in my 993 - put in 0.2L of oil and it did about 30 mpg . Mine has done over 167,000 miles and the engine has never been apart !!

Incidently, we were booked on the Tunnel but after the fire switched to the ferry - paid an extra £12 each way for a priority boarding which is the best thing I have ever done (well nearly) - on first and parked at half density and off first the other end - no chance of a door ding - bliss !!

Hope your offer goes through.

Mark Elder · Oct 2, 2008

John,

ORIGINAL: John Maddox
My 993 has had repair/maintenance costs of £17,833.30 over 13 years and 166k miles - so that is about £1400 per year.

Does that include eveything except petrol (ie does it include tyres)?

Good tip about priority on ferry - I'll definately go for that - made me paranoid on our trip to Spain - although the loading guy on the way out was great and made a point of positioning us away from other car doors.