Project C2S - the beast lives

[okellyt]

I put a post up some time ago about some potneital changes I was looking to make in order to liven my C2S up

Its taken a while for a veriety of reasons but yestreday the beast underwent its transformation

Starting Point []

• C2S with Powerkit (385+ PS)
• Short Shift and sports exhaust
• Sports Chrono

Additions [:-]

• Full Milltek 200 Cell Freeflow Exhaust
• Induction Kit
• Stage 2 Revo Remap
• EBC Yellow Break Pads Front and Rear
• ATE Racing Brake Fluid

Effects [8|]

• Exhaust + 20 - 30 Bhp
• Revo Stage 1 + 15 - 25 Bhp
• Induction Kit + 10 - 20 Bhp
• Revo Stage 2 + 4.5 - 7.5 Bhp

Net Improvement then = + 50 - + 82.5 BHP

Add to 385 horses and we get 435 - 470BHP

Assuming averge gains (and I know I got more than that on the Revo stage 1) this now give me 450 Bhp

Torque gains were similar

The powergains explains the need for a significant break upgrade[8|]

The breakfluid was to help breaking but also prvent my expereince at Stelvio of the break fluid boiling off as we got to the summit []

 

[okellyt]

So how does it drive - can it get any of this extra power down

Well this afternoon, work was slow and the roads were dry

Think scalded cat on acid, then stick a ricket up it

From 3000 rpm a wedge of torque comes in and second though sixth gear feel like your in one gear lower it pulls so hard. Pull is very even all the way to 6000rpm. As the kit is new I haven't gone over that yet - frankly on public roads I didn't need to

Took a couple of favourite roads (south east near London there 1 -3 mile stretches) and was arriving at corners 10 -15 mph faster than previously and that was when redlining it.

Had to loose the switachable exhaust though - part of the delay was trying to get milteck to do somehting that could be plugged in

As the moment exhaust is a low roar (about an octave lower) but have learn't with previous exhaust it'll take a good few thousand miles before we find out what she really sounds like.

 

[garyw]

Tom, It sounds like most excellent fun [8D] and some very impressive numbers to suit!!
I'll need to watch my back for sure!!

Ignoring the warranty issues for a second;
With regard to VFM, would you still go with the X51 kit or do you feel that the upgrades have made more of an improvement on the car overall
Maybe to early to ask I admit...

I agree 100% about the brake fluid!!!

garyw

 

[Black80XSA]

Be interesting to see some real dyno figures - all sounds impressive, but its always good to see what you really have available []

 

[okellyt]

Gary

Good question - What I was after was to free up the old 3.8 lump to allow it to run at its best - in terms of breathing air in and gas out, rather than mess with the engine itself. The remap is all about taking advantage of high quality European Fuel and the better air flow in and out of the engine.

I didn't want to loose the character of the car but I wanted more of the same, in particular I wanted more in gear mid rev grunt for overtaking - "Down south" the roads are so crowded you only get a narrow windows to overtake, so rapid and fun progress is all about dispatching other cars within minimum fuss and minimum TED (time exposed to danger)

What is interesting was when the guys looked at the x51 conversion on Wednesday - they had to order bespoke filters as the x51 has 2 and they are huge - the x51 filter fitted is of "average" quality but the guys felt with a good quality filter it wouldn't be lacking for air in, especially not with the cooling induction kit fitted.

The garage guys also pointed out that the throttle actuator (again all around getting air and fuel mixed into the engine) or whatever it is for the x51 was the biggest they had seen on any 997 - again useful to take advantage of the mods I was making

The guys seemed to think therefore that the x51 had far more potential than had been realised

So the moral seems to be the x51 though expensive is actually hugely suited to getting the maximum out of the after market mods I went for ie with the x51 the gains should be much greater than with the standard car.

Clearly the new bits will take a while to bed in and develop their maximum output but its already clear its much quicker in gear and feels much tauter all round.

So what i am saying is that for these mods it looks like the x51 will only enhance it and was therefore worth it.

As to the warranty, part of the delay on the upgrades was me um-ming and ah-hing - but frankly 1400 odd quid per year is basically 3 RMS's before you are out of pocket and as demonstrated recently, if the engine lunches itself Porsche would probably try to not pay out under warranty any way. So which ever way I cut it the extended warranty was too expensive with no guarantee of cover when it was really needed.

All the mods I have had are allowing the engine to breath more freely not putting more strain on the engine itself so from that basis it should not effect the risk - so if the engine goes it was going to go anyway. therefore either way I'd be stuffed.

Fingers crossed it doesn't then.

 

[okellyt]

Black80XSA - good idea

I should have put the caveat "Manufacturers Claims" on the numbers. The guys at the garage suggested it would be good to dyno it as well to see what the real numbers are.

I'll need to give it a few thousand miles to bed in first anyway but if there is a trip that invovles a dyno later on I shall try it out and see what we get

My primary interest was more in gear grunt rather than fancy top end figures - what ever the numbers its deifinately got that - so until proven by dyno I'll take them as realtive power figures i.e. what ever the power its had about a 18 % hike. And for Torque more like a 23% hike.

Feel is a subjective thing - but so far based on one proper trip out it feels about mid way between the C2S x51 and a Turbo. It definately feels significantly quicker than my brothers 996 GT3 MK II, if that helps as a comparison. Whereas before it was similar but felt a little bit slower.

The breaks are much better - even though I am being gentle and bedding them in ther is more feel and more stopping power near the top of the pedal. Give them a few more miles and I'll give them a couple of proper stops to see if they really are more powerful.

 

[Dylan1]

sounds like you are going to have a lot of fun tom-well done!!

 

[okellyt]

ORIGINAL: dyllan

sounds like you are going to have a lot of fun tom-well done!!

Oh Yes - I have joined the Dark Side

Alex should be proud!

 

[Jimberland]

Hi Tom,

I have been toying with the idea of making a few changes to my C2S and your account has sold me on the idea
I don't have the powerkit but the idea of freeing up the engine is one i really like.
I need new front pads too and was looking for a good replacement.

I'm based in the South too.
Where did you have the work done?

Private msg me if you'd prefer.

Thanks,
James

 

[okellyt]

James

Email sent

Have fun

Tom

 

[YvesD]

T,

I'm having a lovely nostalga moment reading all this, sounds like you are having a great time with the X51.

Best wishes

Yves

 

[okellyt]

Yves

thanks - its now an absolute beast and looks like the stock car

I love it

Any sign of you drifting back into the fold?

 

[YvesD]

Still trying to be sensible ( very hard work ) but keeping a watchful eye on 'pre-owned' 997 TT prices.

When they head south of £60k which wont be long now, I might be back in !

Yves

 

[okellyt]

Having had the car a couple of weeks now and with the good weather had a couple of runs out, I thought I'd give a quick update.

First impressions have been bourne out - it feels mighty quick for a tweaked Gen 1 C2S. On favourtie stretches of road its hitting much higher speeds into corners (a good 10-15mph)

Got a comparison from an independent ajudicator - My better half who was suspicious as to whether the whole upgrade thing would make any difference - she also feels it much faster now in gear and well as through the gears.

The only problem is now she doesn't like my changing gear at full chat, being pushed so hard back in the seat she doesn't like it when the acceleration comes off (clutch depressed) and comes forward in the seat. Hmmm I'll have to work on that.[8D]

Break pads are now bedded in and give a lot more feel than the standard ones as well as face peeling stopping power. They feel much more potent than the standard items - having embarresed myself a couple of times under medium brealing , coming to a near halt well short of the junction by applying the sort of pressure I would have with the previous set up.

The exhaust is starting to get a lilttle bit of charcter and growls quite nicely under full acceleration. However based on experience with the previous sports exhaust it'll take a good 10k, miles before it really frees up making its full sound.

 

[robert997]

This is great stuff Tom, I'm pleased you're enjoying your new toys ! Must be the fastest Carrera S in the country !

Thanks for sharing this kind of experience with everyone, it's exactly what the register and the forum is all about. That goes for Alex too, and everyone else.

Are you coming to any of our events in the next couple of months so we can see it ? Cosford, Gaydon etc ?

 

[athsmith]

Interested in your views on your brake upgrade as my 997 C2 (05) @ 16500 mls is in need of new front disks as despite daily driver corrosion has set in. Did you upgrade the rotors as well as the pads and if so which did you use?

 

[okellyt]

ORIGINAL: athsmith

Interested in your views on your brake upgrade as my 997 C2 (05) @ 16500 mls is in need of new front disks as despite daily driver corrosion has set in. Did you upgrade the rotors as well as the pads and if so which did you use?

athsmith

Went for EBC Yellow Pads, as my disks were OK I kept them. I could have upgraded them too and probably will do when the current set wear out. However even this is a big improvement

I probably will stick with the same size breaks just get a higher quality/more specialist model, something that compliments the EBC pads (EBC or Padgids). If there had been an option on an affordable move to Porsche ceramics I would have gone that way but was quote £12k, So not an option.

The EBC Yellow are for use in Road/Medium Track Day work so work from cold through to much higher temperatures than a normal set of pads - the price is the breaks do squeal when they are not warm, frankly as discussed elsewhere on the forum my normal C2S breaks squealed a lot anyway.

What has also helped is the break fluid - the race break fluid is less susceptible to heat effects - as some of you know on the Swiss passes tour I boiled off my standard break fluid on Stelvio pass - as its a shared reservoir with the clutch I had no breaks or gears[][][] Now this was under extreme use and given the altitude atmospheric pressure was half normal significantly lowering boiling points of the oil still it was a scary experience.

Hope this helps

 

[okellyt]

ORIGINAL: robert997

This is great stuff Tom, I'm pleased you're enjoying your new toys ! Must be the fastest Carrera S in the country !

Thanks for sharing this kind of experience with everyone, it's exactly what the register and the forum is all about. That goes for Alex too, and everyone else.

Are you coming to any of our events in the next couple of months so we can see it ? Cosford, Gaydon etc ?

Robert

Very kind of you - I think there are a couple of others who have gone further down the tuning route who would have bragging rights on the C2S - it would be good to hear their experiences and views.

I had a few helpful emails on options when looking at upgrading mine from people who had already upgraded their C2S'[]

As always keen to attend what events I can - I aim to be at at least one of Cosford or Gaydon if not both.[][]

 

[okellyt]

Beast feels a bit quicker this week

Took a mate out whose a fellow Porsche nut (3.2 Carerra). He'd been out with me for a few hard runs before the recent upgrades.

His verdict was "scarily quicker - its all about the in gear performance" so it wasn't just my imagination.

That was with 2 large and heavy chaps in the car. [][][]

 

[okellyt]

Gents

Received the Green Filters last week (to replace the std ones) and had them fitted yesterday.

Haven't noticed any real performance difference yet, definitely a bit more noise from the exhaust now - not sure if this is related but the Green filters are much less deep than the OEM ones.

Had no real expectations of what difference if any these would make - I was guessing maybe a slight increase in throttle response but frankly any difference is small compared to the other changes.

Now the engine/break updates are complete I'll see how we get on over the next few months.

Just have to resist temptation from Alex to have my suspension set up and geometry checked, and those lovely PASM compatible Bilsteins.........[:-]