ProMAX Guru Link MAP Kit Test Day

[John Sims]

The Link MAP kit is very different electronically to the bespoke solution employed on Andrews car. As a consequence the majority of Monday was spent establishing the best way to handle the Link system and how to work with its idiosyncrasies. BKE spent a considerable time on the rollers (poor devil) though, ultimately once familiar with the kit, the final dialling in was done easily within a couple of hours.

Currently, BKE is running nice and smoothly, with all the original tick-over issues resolved and with fuelling set up for 15 psi boost. Guru Racing suggest claims of 260 rwhp with 300+ lb-ft torque at this setting on a 220 Turbo. BKE produced 259 rwhp (280 at flywheel) though unfortunately we couldn't get a torque reading "˜cos it was bust. Bearing in mind this is with an 160k mile 220 turbo at 15 psi this isn't a poor result so far and there seems to be capacity on the injectors to push towards 18 psi. We saw a nice even power curve though it seemed to peak and die a little more than would be preferred which could indicate a shot turbo. []

"So far"¦" we are looking at this as Work In Progress as we are keen to gain more first hand experience. We want to know if the original lack of "Plug'n'play" was due to a problem with BKEs box, or if a degree of dialling in is necessary as a standard precaution. We are also looking to see what torque is being produced, where, and how much more can be gained.

On the road, to me, BKE doesn't seem that different to the original Guru chip setup. Belinda, on the other hand, thinks he is much faster. I haven't had much time, or clear roads, to play at the moment so I will report further as time goes on.

Due to the time spent learning the system on BKE we didn't get time for Graham and Rick to run and hone their big turbo, big injector hybrids. We were thrown out at 11:00pm, so can't give final power figures for their cars though it is anticipate they will ultimately be big.

 

[Guest]

Mmm 7% transmittion losses sounds a tad low to me.
Do you notice a better pick-up with the MAP kit?

 

[John Sims]

Mmm 7% transmittion losses sounds a tad low to me.

Works were carried out on ABG Motorsports dyno in Runcorn. This dyno is tested and calibrated every 3 months as it is used by many race teams in series where power to weight ratio is crittical for formula compliance. It is, apparently, accurate to within 1% []

That said, if one were to assume a 15% transmission loss on BKE that would give us 305 bhp.[]

Out of the box the Guru MAP kit seemed to almost wipe out lag. Unfortunately it was giving too much fuel at low revs while running lean at high revs and so has been changed for a standard Wayne chip for the moment. The fueling can be addressed through the Link programmer and we are looking to swap back to the Guru solution, and adjust the fueling accordingly, as the current set up seems a little lethargick at low revs which makes the transition to power seem quite brutal now. I am hoping that a second session returning to the Guru chip will see a more enthusiastic bottom end which should introduce a more refined transition to power.

The Link setup seems to produce much interest on Rennlist, particularly as you can modify and adjust the fuel maps yourself. Noting the most users seem to have a Link Programmer, and are swapping fuel maps, it might be that this will become the norm for MAP users.

The tone of the car has changed quite dramatically by using the MAP with a K&N cone filter. In the first instance you do get a little more induction growl, you got none with the K&N on the old barn door. You also get a significant whoosh from the waste gate. [] The wastegate is still feeding back into the J pipe but, as there is no "barn door" between it and the outside world, you can hear it vent. Graham has his MAP installed in stealth mode, retaining the Turbo filter box, and this absorbs the whoosh if such things aren't your bag.

 

[Guest]

300+ sounds more like it. Just looks like the run down test was a bit dodgy. 15% is pretty much recognised as normal for RWD, my rundown test indicated 18%

Get it tuned right and you sould be knocking on 340bhp. Add the 55lb injectors and max that turbo to 20psi weeehayyy 360bhp+

 

[Fen]

ORIGINAL: John Sims

On the road, to me, BKE doesn't seem that different to the original Guru chip setup. Belinda, on the other hand, thinks he is much faster. I haven't had much time, or clear roads, to play at the moment so I will report further as time goes on.

That bears out what I thought about mine with the MAF - it doesn't feel fast to drive because it's smooth, but it does go fast and feel so from the passenger seat.

 

[John Sims]

it doesn't feel fast to drive because it's smooth, but it does go fast

Had a little blast around my local lanes this afternoon. I think Belinda is right, it is faster []. I'm not saying that I frightened myself but, corners on a road I am familier with seem to arrive much quicker then I remember.

 

[Fen]

Thta's exactly what I thought - it doesn't feel faster, but you have to brake harder for corners you know well.

 

[Diver944]

That's excellent news []

I was petrified you'd blown something up when I didn't see you posting straight away []

Do you know if Andrew will be supplying future MAP kits with a raw Wayne chip due to the Guru one not being quite right, or could this be down to something on BKE or that possibly 'shot' Turbocharger

 

[John Sims]

Do you know if Andrew will be supplying future MAP kits with a raw Wayne chip due to the Guru one not being quite right

As I understand, this is to be established at the next test session. The Guru chip wasn't quite in tune with my MAP kit, hence the necessity to alter the fueling. Significant fueling allteration has also been carried out following Waynes base chip swap, so there seems little advantage in the latter unless the ignition curves are better.

Graham had no work done on his car as when tested, although a little rich, was well within tollerance. This is just as well as we ran out of time and got thrown out for making too much noise - well it was close on 11:00pm.

My preference is to retain the Guru chip so that we can swap and compare fuel tables on the same base map. However, if the Wayne chip solution provides better power and drivabillity, then that must offset the entertainment of comparing numbers in boxes on pieces of paper.

Taking that point further, I doubt any modified Turbos in the country/world are on identical specifications so there is perhaps always an advantage in the final tweek.

 

[Guest]

Andrew, did they not do a run down test, where the clutch is dipped very quickly and the load is set on the rear wheels, they will slow down to a stop. The run down curve should be included on a plot it should show a smooth curve dropping to zero.

As a gereral rule its my understanding that

RWD cars have approx 15%-20% transmittion losses
FWD have 20%-25%
4wd have 25%-35%

Obviously not cast in stone but losses of 10% and lower seem very suspect.

IF you are getting 387rwhp then i would suggest that your engine would be producing 450+bhp

This kind of makes sense considering the performance that your car has and is recognised to have.

 

[944Turbo]

I thought FWD (except mini's) had lower transmission losses than rwd as the 90degree turn hurt the efficiency but 10% does sound like a very efficient transmission.
Tony

 

[Guest]

ORIGINAL: 944Turbo

I thought FWD (except mini's) had lower transmission losses than rwd as the 90degree turn hurt the efficiency but 10% does sound like a very efficient transmission.
Tony

Taking the drive from a transvers engine on a fwd still has to travel through into the gearbox then go through a diff.

Just quoting figures that i have seen over the years from many a dyno run.