Question re 944 turbo'S' on an 88 suspension/LSD

[ukmastiff]

A bit of a sad gap in my turbo knowledge here as I have not yet owned a later turbo.

Does 'every' 250 BHP 944 have the larger 4 pot brakes and more importantly does it necessarily have the LSD. The explanations I see online suggest that all 250 BHP 944 turbo's were in fact 'S' and had the 4 Koni shocks setup and importantly also the LSD but can someone confirm this.
For some reason I have it in my head that some dont have the LSD and its an option but i am most likely confused with the S2's I have seen with it as an option.
Just in case I buy one ( wink)

Regards

Mas

 

[Lowtimer]

Every 250hp Turbo road car came out of the factory with a limited slip diff. They all had medium blacks at least: I am unsure if any of them had bigger brakes than that, but believe not. They did not all come with M030 suspension (mine didn't, for example).

You will find that in every 250 Turbo handbook and spec sheet it is listed as having the 220 option, which is the LSD, but since you couldn't get one without that option, it wasn't really an option, if you see what I mean. Just as today if you spec a new 911 you can't choose to have it without the 'optional' third year of warranty and various other things.

Incidentally, my 1990 model year brochure and price list admits to no such thing as a Turbo S. It's either a Turbo or it's an S2.

 

[simkin911]

To my knowledge, they ALL come with the larger brakes and LSD but not the Koni set up as standard.

 

[ukmastiff]

So obviously no rear shocks no likey , I mean no MO30 setup.

Info online contradicts this but though I love scouring various 944 info, I would rather learn from my peers
than trust anything I read online lol

Cheers

 

[Catamax944]

Aren't the konis and the larger calipers part of the same M030 package ?

 

[944 man]

As above, they added the brakes and LSD from the M758 cars, but not the (M030) Koni dampers and antiroll bars.

The 1988 M758 Turbo was marketed as the 'Turbo S' in Europe and North America, but Porsche Cars Great Britain named it the '944 Turbo with Sport Equipment (ie 944 Turbo SE).


/cat amongst the pigeons []

 

[944 man]

ORIGINAL: Catamax944

Aren't the kony's and the larger calipers part of the same M030 package ?

Yes theyre all part of the M030 option, but on 1989> 250PS Turbos the larger brakes were fitted as the standard part.

 

[Lowtimer]

ORIGINAL: 944 man
Porsche Cars Great Britain named it the '944 Turbo with Sport Equipment (ie 944 Turbo SE).


/cat amongst the pigeons []

Cat amongst pigeons indeed. I have been doing further research into this since the last time it came up.

I have still not seen a single piece of documentation from Porsche using the phrase "Turbo SE" or "Turbo with Sport Equipment" for any of the cars from the era when the 250 hp car was the standard Turbo, i.e. after they killed the 200 Turbo and after the Silver Rose cars. And there's no doubt that it's a straight Turbo in the 1990 model year, from the evidence of Porsche's own marketing material. I don't have a 1989 brochure or price list.

However, in July 1988 edition of Motor Sport magazine has a road test of the new 250 hp car under the name "Turbo SE", and that article was written by someone with the initials GC - any idea who it was? That's the only in-period evidence I can find for the notion that the 250 Turbo was once known as the Turbo SE.

However, the car in the article has 7" and 9" forged CS wheels instead of the 7.5" and 9" D90 wheels that we know from the late Turbo. It has no sunroof, and with the big Turbo logo across the front wing, so I think this review is actually what we know as a Silver Rose car. It has the loud checked Silver Rose interior, as far as I can tell from the monochrome pics. It also describes the car as a more expensive alternative to the ordinary 220T, which further implies that this is actually a Silver Rose as the later 250 Turbos were a replacement for the 220, not an alternative to it.

The article is not Motor Sport's finest hour, to be honest, and contains some obvious errors: for example:
"Incredibly, the weight distribution of the Turbo SE is virtually the same as that of a rear-engined 911, with 59% over the rear axle."

Also, the 11 May edition of Autocar has a twin test of the same car, registered E868FJM, also calling it a 944 Turbo SE, testing it versus a 911 Clubsport.

So on the evidence so far, it looks as if some people in the press were told they should refer to the Silver Rose car as the "Turbo SE" but I can find no documentary evidence that the post Silver Rose 250T was ever know by Porsche as anything other than "Turbo".

 

[Frenchy]

The Turbo S "Silverose" spec car was available in other colours after customers commented on the dislike of the colour scheme, Porsche made them available in the same spec but with colour combo options, a lot of the 89 Turbos i see have the M030 Chassis,Konis, Forged Wheels etc, i had a 90 Turbo which did not have the MO30 Chassis.
My Porsche build sheet and V5 state, Turbo S, i believe that the post 88 Turbos with MO30 Chasis were Turbo SE (Sport Equipment)
My Tuppence.

 

[944 man]

ORIGINAL: Lowtimer

ORIGINAL: 944 man
Porsche Cars Great Britain named it the '944 Turbo with Sport Equipment (ie 944 Turbo SE).


/cat amongst the pigeons []

Cat amongst pigeons indeed. I have been doing further research into this since the last time it came up.

I have still not seen a single piece of documentation from Porsche using the phrase "Turbo SE" or "Turbo with Sport Equipment" for any of the cars from the era when the 250 hp car was the standard Turbo, i.e. after they killed the 200 Turbo and after the Silver Rose cars. And there's no doubt that it's a straight Turbo in the 1990 model year, from the evidence of Porsche's own marketing material. I don't have a 1989 brochure or price list.

However, in July 1988 edition of Motor Sport magazine has a road test of the new 250 hp car under the name "Turbo SE", and that article was written by someone with the initials GC - any idea who it was? That's the only in-period evidence I can find for the notion that the 250 Turbo was once known as the Turbo SE.

However, the car in the article has 7" and 9" forged CS wheels instead of the 7.5" and 9" D90 wheels that we know from the late Turbo. It has no sunroof, and with the big Turbo logo across the front wing, so I think this review is actually what we know as a Silver Rose car. It has the loud checked Silver Rose interior, as far as I can tell from the monochrome pics. It also describes the car as a more expensive alternative to the ordinary 220T, which further implies that this is actually a Silver Rose as the later 250 Turbos were a replacement for the 220, not an alternative to it.

The article is not Motor Sport's finest hour, to be honest, and contains some obvious errors: for example:
"Incredibly, the weight distribution of the Turbo SE is virtually the same as that of a rear-engined 911, with 59% over the rear axle."

Also, the 11 May edition of Autocar has a twin test of the same car, registered E868FJM, also calling it a 944 Turbo SE, testing it versus a 911 Clubsport.

So on the evidence so far, it looks as if some people in the press were told they should refer to the Silver Rose car as the "Turbo SE" but I can find no documentary evidence that the post Silver Rose 250T was ever know by Porsche as anything other than "Turbo".

Ref: Performance Car April 1988. They referred to it as such and stated that Porsche so-named it. I still have the magazine as it was pretty much the start of my real interest in 944s.

Simon

 

[944 man]

E868 FJM was indeed a Rose Silver M758. That was the press car and its the car tested against the Ferrari 328 in the article which I have referenced.

As an aside, the inaccurate naming may be down to Reading. If you contact the Porsche museum archive then theyll laugh if you ask about the 944 S2 SE, but we know that the car did indeed exist, and that it was a runout 'special' marketed by PCGB.

Whilst I believe that the 'SE' name is one of many things made up by owners long after the cars were current (others being the '968 tray' myth and the all electric seats myth etc), it is also possible that PCGB referred to the cars as such, in their marketing flounce. That said, the 1989 price list refers only to the car as a '944 Turbo', as does the owners manual.


Simon

 

[Ewan]

In line with some of the comments/cars above, my 1990 Turbo SE has the big brakes and LSD, but not the crashy Koni suspension. So luckily not every 250 turbo was subjected to the MO30 set up when new.

 

[scam75]

Yes it's all a bit of a myth but it must have grown from somewhere. No-one will ever know the truth. I have the MY90 brochure and it only mentions "turbo". I have an MY90 turbo and the log book says only turbo. No mention of S or SE in any literature. I think that the "s" is on the log book for M758 cars as you could have a non "s" at that point and the "s" designated a pre-set package of upgrades over the standard model. There simply became no need for the "s" designation when the 250PS car was all that was available and it simply became just "turbo" again. For all intents and purposes you could say my car was an "s". It has the M030 option, CS wheels and no sunroof, however no "s" designation as it wasn't a "super" variant of another available model. I think we would all agree this makes it worth a bit less in today's market which seems somewhat unfair? This is "s" precious disorder! I do have a factory bridge spoiler fitted though so the purist would identify it could not be an "s" anyway!

Too many people are "s" precious! They are all 250 turbo's at the end of the day whether they are an "s" or not and it would seem the presence of a sunroof or factory M030 is the only real difference. Not really any different from an early 220 which could have had sunroof delete or M030 added but would still just have been a turbo regardless.

Stuart