Questions and advice please

[70sthrowback]

Hi all,

I am going to apologise in advance for my ramblings.......

Ever since I can remember I have always wanted a Porsche 911 and a while ago I found myself in the position which meant I was almost there. However at the time all I could afford was a high mileage 964 and rightly or wrongly the fear took over me and I bought a Boxster S. Mainly because I was worried about costs and running an older car as a daily driver.

3 years later I still have that itch so after much deliberation I have decided to go for it. I have debated long and hard about 993 v 996, but ultimately its the original air cooled engine that has won it over the newer water cooled version for me, however with a budget of c£18k I am on the edge of 993 affordability.

I have been looking for a few months now, and in my price bracket I mainly see convertible tiptronic examples. Now I obviously like a soft top owning one, however my personal opinion is that the 993 convertible loses the sleek roof lines of the coupe (or even targa). (my prefence only)

So eventually to the point. I have been told I should buy a manual varioram coupe, but like I said its doubtful I will be able to afford one. That being the case I am hoping to hear your experience as owners, if you would be so kind. This car will need to be my daily driver, I drive a mixture of country roads and "A" dual carriage way in a 30 mile round trip which means I do about 7000 miles a year.

I am wondering what people think about the following:-

Tiptronic v Manual. I believe the tiptronic is 4 gears, so I know it is slower on 0-60, but what about mpg. On a practical level, as I am not going to be racing, does it make that much difference?

Targa v Coupe. I have read the warnings about the targa roof and potential issues. Is this real, or scare stories? I seem to remember the targa is essentially the convertible body so is slower than the coupe?

Varioram or not? Looking at whats around I would be able to afford a tiptronic varioram. Does the extra bhp compensate for the 4 gears if I was to compare to a non vario manual?

I know all of this is down to personal preference but I feel it is always good to hear from people who have gone through these choices before and now live with them on a daily basis. And does any of it matter when you have the joy of driving a 993 around!

So as I said at the top, apologies for the ramblings and many thanks in advance for any responses.

ps does anyone know where I can get statistics to compare the figures for mpg, 0-60, top speed etc etc for all the different variations?

 

[jmw74]

Hi there -

I have a 993 P reg 1996 Variovam Targa Tiptronic so can offer you some opinion, however, it is the only Porsche I have owned, so I'm afraid I can't really compare to manual/coupe/cabrio/non-variovam versions.

Tip vs. Manual: I realise the Tip is slower 0-60, however, in real-life I don't find myself missing out on the extra second. I can still get off the mark pretty quickly if I want to drive like a prat and pull away from a boy racer next to me at the lights (which is pretty much never). So from a speed perspective, I don't think it's an issue. As for MPG, I get around 24/25 out of mine which I don't think is bad at all. Would be interesting to see how that compares with manual owners. As for the sort of driving I do, as I live in central London, the tip is actually quite useful, as in a manual I'd be on the clutch all the time in London traffic. So the tip makes it easy in London. Having said that though, about 5% of the time (when I find myself on a nice quiet A road) there are times when I think it would be nice to have a manual. Although, if I did have a manual, I'm sure I'd be thinknig the opposite for the 95% of the time when I'm in London traffic. The grass is always greener I guess. For everyday use, the Tip is fine. Fully auto mode can be a bit agricultural and not that sporty - but fine for using everyday. Going into "Manual" mode using the tip controls let's you drive it if you want to have a bit more fun.

Targa vs. Coupe. I may be a little biased on this one, as I actually seeked out a Targa. I've had no problems with my Targa roof. I do get a few drips coming in if it's been raining heavily, but nothing much. And it can whistle above 80/90mph (although, whistling pitch will randomly vary, and sometimes it's not there). Opening the wind deflector stops the whistling, but then you get the noise of the air. So the Targa isn't quiet, but then again, it's a sports car, it's not going to quiet anyway. The Targa roof does have its uses of getting stuff in and out of the car though (and travelling back from B&Q with large items sticking out of it). One thing about the Targa though is its weight. The heavy glass roof and the heavier wheels make it bit of a heavier car. After being a passenger in sebrusselsmiths manual non-vario 993 at Castle Combe on Saturday, I got the feeling the coupe was lighter and a bit more nimble on track.

Variovam - not sure to be honest. I'd like to think the variovam goes some way to overcoming the reduction in speed caused by the auto and extra weight. But really can't be sure.

The only other 993 I've driven was a test drive of a 993 Turbo - but that's not really comparable

Wikipedia has some performance figures: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_993#Performance

Hope that helps!

John

 

[Mike M]

As every one no doubt will say; drive a few diffrent versions (without taking the mick out of people only test them if your really interested!) and spend your money on the important things such as condition and history.

Never understood the fixation of Varioram over non and then insisting on trip which as mentioned drops the times down. Varioram gets more low down torque and probably about it, if it has it or not isnt that important the enjoyment comes from a good purchase of a solid car which is not going to be in the garage continuously and if you buy right these things are bomb proof if not they will bankrupt you and kill the experiance.

You have a limited budget and you have just ruled out non vario which is at the lower end because of its age so your liable to pick up a possibly rougher varioram version at that price IMO.

Trip again as mentioned is good in heavy traffic as the clutch can become tyresome after prolonged stop starts in rolling traffic.

As for soft top or not I cant comment on the technicalities I could only go on the visual preferance.

Either way good luck and enjoy []

 

[70sthrowback]

thanks for all the info so far... to be honest I have no preconceptions on what variation I get. All I have decided so far is that its a 993 and not a convertible. Other than that I am open minded.

I was more interested in hearing what people thought, as peoples experience is worth a lot more than reading a car review in a magazine. You guys use these daily not just race them for a week.

My boxster is a tiptronic and I enjoy the flexibility of this, especially as John pointed out when queuing in traffic. I drive into York everyday so I like the idea.

So many thanks for all the advice, all opinions are more than welcome.

 

[997GT3_KO]

ORIGINAL: hespereus

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1225573.htm

worth a look?

I think Camerons have had this car for sale for at least 3 - 4 mths ... I could well be mistaken but I noticed it whilst searching for my 993 ...

 

[997GT3_KO]

Sorry - wasnt suggesting that it is or it isnt - just passing on an observation ... I didnt make any enquiries as I wasnt looking for a Targa... hope that clarifies...

 

[james palmer]

WHAT about my 1996 993 CARRERA 2 FORSALE.
SEE AD ON 993 FORUM (993 FORSALE)

JAMES P

 

[70sthrowback]

Thanks for all the info guys. I am about a month away from having the funds in place, so didn't want to waste peoples time just yet. Thought I would start with the advice first and move from there.

Mind you I am also somewhat restricted as I need to part ex mine, or sell it privately first, so trade in is the easiest option.

Thanks again

 

[davepaul993]

hi i have a 97 coupe c2 manual v/ram its my 1st porsche so cannot coment on tip but i love it to bits see pics below !
hope you find the right one for yourself there great !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Johnny C]

I'd agree with the tip, I'm a daily driver doing the M62 to Manchester and it's a pain sitting with your foot on the clutch for 4-5 miles in a jam every morning.

If you do decide on one, as you have a limited budget have a look around the forum or post a question asking what work you'd expect a potential buy to have had done, and what you can expect to have done in the reasonably near future. Part and parcel of owning a 993 is that you need to anticipate spending largish chunks of money from time to time. Of course in the long-term you don't lose out as you dno't get the depreciation you'd get with other cars but you need to be able to cover the short-term cashflow.

E.g., how recently was the clutch done? If it's likely to be in need of one you're looking at the best part of a £1,000 for clutch+flywheel+fitting. Brakes is another, if it needs new disks + pads all round it's another large chunk of money. If you get a few of these in close succession then it can be an expensive year.

Mine has got 152K on the clock, bought it almost 5 years ago with 72K on, and it's as good as the day I bought it. At the moment though you can't tell due to several months covering of motorway crap that has now completely obscured the rear numberplate, I'm sure it used to be blue and not grey-black (

 

[edelschmetterling]

"Ever since I can remember I have always wanted a Porsche 911" - Go for it, I know how you feel.

"...worried about costs and running an older car as a daily driver." - £2000 ish perhaps if you get everything done per year. Perhaps half. Counter in fuel costs. Brakes, discs et cetera could be an unexpected sting. Phone your local garage and get quotes for the normal jobs and decide yourself.

"3 years later I still have that itch... 993 v 996, but ultimately its the original air cooled engine that has won it over" - You have answered your own question, 993

"993 convertible loses the sleek roof lines of the coupe" - Coupe, people still occasionally walk up to me and comment on the real lines of the true 911, the 993.

"I have been told I should buy a manual varioram coupe" - You should listen more to that source. The interaction you'll get with this combination is raw & beautiful. You'll learn to drive and respect the 993 for all she is worth.

"30 mile round trip which means I do about 7000 miles a year." - The more the merrier. I used to drive to work everyday, and it makes going to work a joy and returning home a pill to ease the hard day away. If you have traffic note the fuel won't last as long. They like moving...

"Tiptronic v Manual... does it make that much difference?" - Let's pretend this car is a beautiful woman, do you want to engage manually or use a toy?

"Targa v Coupe." - Simple Coupe.

"Varioram or not? - Varioram in a manual " - Varioram it is all about being in ultimate control and the car doing what you want and need it to when you want it to. You will feel the difference in the mid REVs range and above, it's dreamy.

"I know all of this is down to personal preference... And does any of it matter when you have the joy of driving a 993 around!" - be it the sweet shop, just because or longer drives that joy is always there. I am in London, traffic is nuts on occasion, but as soon as that road opens up and it will eventually that feeling is in a league of its own.

"statistics to compare the figures for mpg, 0-60, top speed etc etc for all the different variations" - All these vary according to how you drive. 6th Gear at 30mph / 50mph you can get over 300mile to the tank.

 

[997GT3_KO]

I drive mine as it is meant to be driven - and on tankfuls of SUPER UNLEADED, I average 22mpg tank on tank... Journeys can be town or motorways...

 

[70sthrowback]

Lots of great info here, so many thanks for that. I still can't make my mind up on which variant to go for, but at least have the funds in place now ready to go when I do.

Has anyone had any dealings with Charles Ivey? I have seen a 1995 993 manual for sale there

http://www.charlesivey.com/Porsche-Sales/details.php?id=284

I am guessing being 1995 its not the varioram model, but it does look nice. Unfortunately being up the northern end of England its not exactly convenient for me to pop in to check it out. So if anyone has been in recently or had a look at this car and could let me know what you thought, or even if you used to own the car any info would be great!

A couple of others that have caught my eye are below, same goes for the info....

http://www.gpcars.co.uk/53082/stock.htm 2nd page 1997 targa at £17993
http://www.woodstockestates.info/gallery/index.php?list=224 - 1995 Coupe £18000

thanks again everyone, I am having fun looking for my 993

 

[Porker993]

Any 993 is a great car you would be proud to own.. However, if nimble lightweight fun and agility is important to you, go for 2wd, coupe, 6 speed manual, narrow body.

Just my personal view. Everyone on here will have a different view.

 

[997GT3_KO]

I would agree with the post above... but I am willing to forgo some of their agility for greater sure-footedness and that "to-die-for" wide butt visual !

 

[dommorton]

http://www.woodstockestates.info/gallery/index.php?list=224 - 1995 Coupe £18000

"one of the last water cooled 911 to be built." FAIL! The bonnet gap is off at the front so would have a careful check of the front panelwork if you look at this one. The drivers seat also looks pretty worn.

 

[Porker993]

Phew, that's had quite a wallop ! Also, not sure if the driver's door shut is quite flush. Look at picture 8.

 

[dommorton]

Hmm looks a bit gappy up front doesn't it. Panels could have been off for various reasons and just badly refitted. I wouldn't want to chance it though.

 

[70sthrowback]

thanks dommorton, had another closer look and you are right, never noticed that before. See you guys have saved me a journey already. To be honest I thought this one was a little over priced based on the mileage, its a tiptronic and its the earlier non varioram engine.

If anyone knows anything about the targa at gp cars or the manual at Charles Ivey please let me know. Looks like these 2 are on the further investigation and test drive list now.

Thanks again

 

[edelschmetterling]

Maurice - yes, I know"¦ I have had this conversation so many times. In fact it was only yesterday Steve at JZ was questioning why I use V-Power over and above other fuels as you only get the extra ps in the higher revs. Well that sort of sums up how I can sometimes find my revs going especially after an unexplained duration in London traffic.