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Quick, quick, look at this!

Yes, makes me laugh these posts where people idly speculate about these things. The fact is that a 944T driven by an enthusiastic amateur that is mildly modded is quicker round the ring than a stripped out, caged e36 M3 evo with AP Racing brakes driven by a professional motoring journalist. The stopwatch never lies.
 
ORIGINAL: sawood12

Yes, makes me laugh these posts where people idly speculate about these things. The fact is that a 944T driven by an enthusiastic amateur that is mildly modded is quicker round the ring than a stripped out, caged e36 M3 evo with AP Racing brakes driven by a professional motoring journalist. The stopwatch never lies.

Scott - I doubt that very much. This is not idle speculation but real world experience. I have driven 2 cars almost identical in spec to your example around Donington (see my post on ph). There is no way the 944 would be quicker given similar track conditions and driver skill.

 

ORIGINAL: edh

ORIGINAL: sawood12

Yes, makes me laugh these posts where people idly speculate about these things. The fact is that a 944T driven by an enthusiastic amateur that is mildly modded is quicker round the ring than a stripped out, caged e36 M3 evo with AP Racing brakes driven by a professional motoring journalist. The stopwatch never lies.

Scott - I doubt that very much. This is not idle speculation but real world experience. I have driven 2 cars almost identical in spec to your example around Donington (see my post on ph). There is no way the 944 would be quicker given similar track conditions and driver skill.

+1

Unless the motoring journo was James May.
My old VLN M3 wasn't an evo. My 968 IS a race car in all but name and I will NEVER see the speeds I had in the M3 through some of the sections at the ring in my 968.
 
This is one of those eternal debates, but the thing that struck me is Evo magazines attempts to break 8mins round the ring in an M3 for £15k. They bought a car, stripped it bare, uprated the suspension, brakes and couldn't break 8 mins. Davyboy in his mildly modded 944T with 968CS suspension clocked 8mins 19 secs. So i'd imagine a more modified 944 T should be able to shave a further 19 secs off the time. 944T's performance is often over-rated, but so is the M3's.
 
Were they measured on the same track length - I gather there can be some confusion over ring times - bridge to gantry or + gp track?
 
The 8m 19 time was BTG so not really that quick in the great scheme of things, he sold that car and never seemed to be happy with the suspension setup. EVO mags attempt at a ring car was less then impressive, I can recall back when the E36 evo was a new car even then you could buy one from a german tuner that was miles faster then stock, albeit at great expense. ISTR Top Gear magazine tested a stock E36 evo, a modified one, a F355, a 993 c2s and some other cars. The most impressive cars where the E36 and F355.

The point of the PH thread was about comparing 2 cars that can be bought now for similar money, arguably one could find a better E36 then 951. There is one at a dealer near me for £5K that looks mint for example, SMG though. Both have great performance, the E36 in particular almost as quick as a modern 911 in stock form. The 951 has easier tuning potential.

Its somewhat tempting actually looking at E36 prices nowadays, I can remember 10 years ago when I bought my S2 I really really wanted the M3. I looked at a couple, hugely impressive performance for back then but the cheapest where still over £20K. The S2 at less then £10K then was the sensible choice albeit at a performance level that is nowhere near the M3 (sorry Oli but you wouldn't see which way the E36 M3 evo went). A friend had one and got stung when the gearbox went, cost him a good few K to sort though which I think put me off them for a long time.

Patrick is right this is a dead horse.
 
ORIGINAL: lali


ORIGINAL: edh

ORIGINAL: sawood12

Yes, makes me laugh these posts where people idly speculate about these things. The fact is that a 944T driven by an enthusiastic amateur that is mildly modded is quicker round the ring than a stripped out, caged e36 M3 evo with AP Racing brakes driven by a professional motoring journalist. The stopwatch never lies.

Scott - I doubt that very much. This is not idle speculation but real world experience. I have driven 2 cars almost identical in spec to your example around Donington (see my post on ph). There is no way the 944 would be quicker given similar track conditions and driver skill.

+1

Unless the motoring journo was James May.
My old VLN M3 wasn't an evo. My 968 IS a race car in all but name and I will NEVER see the speeds I had in the M3 through some of the sections at the ring in my 968.

Sitting in quite a good position to comment on this having had two of each and other models of both this makes perfect sense to me.

On a 'short' track where a car spends most of its time under 100mph you would have to have some amazing skill to get a 944 t around the track as fast as the M3 because the M3 uses every ounce of power and grip it has with ease. A 944T would never use all of its ability. On a long fast track like the Nurburg where the car can get into its stride and spends most of its time over 100mph. Things like ultimate grip, drag and the turbo really come into play. The 944 T gets comparitively faster and faster next to the M3 as the speed builds. By 150mph the m3 is totally out of acelleration but the 944 T still has plenty of shove.

 
Not many places you'll top 130-140 at the 'ring - or even approach it

Fastest parts (apart from dottinger hohe, which isn't open on TF days) are the approach to schwedenkreuz and fuchsrohre - and if you're even touching 150 for a few seconds I'd be impressed.
 
I can confirm that in an M3 doing the VLN lap ( FULL northloop plus a cut down GP circuit ) in a low 10min, we only saw 150 on the Dottinger Hohe.
 

ORIGINAL: DivineE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MiJ__olSxw&feature=related

ps thought you'd like this

One of the comments about that video says it was the same team of engineers that built the 944 and R8. Anyone know if thats true?
 
The R8 is built in the same Audi factory in Neckarsulm, Germany as most other high end Audi's. The same factory was used to build the 924 and 944 in the 70's, 80's and early 90's.

Edd
 

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