Replacing Suspension (again!)

[jboult]

Yes, I know it's been covered in a number of threads, but I'm not sure I managed to glean the answers I wanted from a search of the forum. So....

I have a 1996 993 Targa, and the suspension seems a little tired (particularly at the front). I'm looking at having it redone, and would appreciate advice on the way to go. The car is a daily driver on mixed roads, so needs to be comfortable, but is also driven enthusiastically so needs to handle well.

I had advice from Gert at Carnewal to fit the following: M030 kit with Bilstein HDs, stabiliser bars, etc. (item p93090 on their website).

This seems like a fairly popular choice, but is it really suitable for an everyday commuter car, or should I be looking at something else, staying stock, etc? It's a fairly expensive step so I want to make sure I get it right. Any advice gratefully received!

And despite the detailed technical stuff in Alex's thread I'll be taking Richard's advice and having someone (Camtune) fit it...

Cheers/John

 

[dparslow]

John, on my previous 993 a 96 C2 I went through the same minefield, I find the M030 suspension too harsh to use as a daily driver on the roads around me. I fitted the Bilsteins with Eibach lowering springs or you could use the H & R`s from Gert, they are probably very similar. Many people fit the Bilstein/H &R combination, I`m sure they will give you plenty of feedback on that setup.

There was a very slight deterioration in ride quality, but the old shocks were really stuffed and very soft, so it probably felt as it would have done when the car was new. I had the car set to M030 ride height, it was corner weighted and the geomety was adjusted to RS settings by 9M in Warrington.

The end result was a very sharp handling car that was still comfortable enough for regular use. Regret selling it now.

 

[MrHappy]

Hi John, my Targa is still on standard (maybe original) shocks, I looked at changing the suspension back in September and in the end decided not to (yet!), however after much reading the general advice seemed to be that the MO30 is too harsh for a Targa. The ride will probably improve simply by fitting new standard shocks but when I do change I'll go to the MO33 springs as well, ending up with a lower yet still comfortable ride. Unless you're going to seriously track the car I can't see the point in spending any more than this IMHO.

David.

 

[968er]

As a daily driver I would stick to the Bilstein HD's and H&R sport springs from Gert. I had this done to my car 2 years ago and it trandforms it without making it to harsh to drive on the roads.

If it was not a Targa would suggest the M030 setup, but that may be to big a jump for you.

 

[RichardLW]

Bilstein HDs/M030 springs and turbo rollbars and an extra half inch down at the front and my C4S is still a lot better riding than before on M033/Boge combo and a million times better than my 964. Perfectly acceptable for everyday use I reckon.

 

[AlexG]

Richard - what made you opt for turbo anti-roll bars instead of MO30 items (though I think only the rear one is different)?

 

[RichardLW]

My car rolled far too much on track to the extent that the tyres and arches made contact at several points at Brands so I just decided to make it as stiff as possible without getting into the area of adjustability. I think that both front and rear are thicker over my original M033 setup but I may be wrong. Certainly, the car now rolls a lot less but I feel that I should have gone for harder front springs than standard M030 as there is still a lot of dive present. My lowered 964 did not dive at all and the ride height stayed the same with a bonnet full of luggage and a full tank......................

 

[jboult]

Maurice,

I don't seem to be able to follow the link you've posted - it says I don't have sufficient credentials (or some such) to view that area. Do you know what I have to do?

In general terms, I did search through the forums for information and the basic understanding I have is that people are very happy with the Bilstein HD/M030 setup.

The worry I have is whether this is suitable for a Targa, or whether it is overkill for such a car. As mentioned, I need to drive it every day on a variety of road surfaces (not all good!), and whilst I desperately want to improve the handling I need to make sure that the car doesn't become too harsh for purpose.

Cheers/John

 

[fergusond]

Hi John, I have a C4 with Gert's M030 suspention and roll bars, I find it a bit soft for the road and rolls more than I want. To compensate for this I experiment with tyre pressures, so you can soften the ride on your Targa by lowering the tyres to suit your needs.
David

 

[fergusond]

that should of been: lowering the tyre pressures to suit your need or raising them (allowing for conditions) if that that suits you.

David

 

[AlexG]

ORIGINAL: RichardLW

My car rolled far too much on track to the extent that the tyres and arches made contact at several points at Brands so I just decided to make it as stiff as possible without getting into the area of adjustability. I think that both front and rear are thicker over my original M033 setup but I may be wrong. Certainly, the car now rolls a lot less but I feel that I should have gone for harder front springs than standard M030 as there is still a lot of dive present. My lowered 964 did not dive at all and the ride height stayed the same with a bonnet full of luggage and a full tank......................

Sounds like your requirements are more focused than mine (I'm not a track day'er).
Having said that, it will be interesting to see whether I still perceive an issue with front end dive since it is one of the things I am hoping the Bilstein/MO30 setup will minimise - I was surprised how pronounced it was on the standard setup, although to be fair it was still on its original shocks! Plus I am new to rear engine/drive so there are a number of handling characteristics for me to re-learn anyway []

 

[Stewart Rix]

I've got HD/M033 on my C4 daily driver and its perfectly comfortable and in fact way more so than when I had the worn out Monroes. I left the original M033 springs on when changing the shocks - the Bilsteins were not the longer thread type available from Carnewal, so the ride height whilst still lower than standard, is slightly higher than the M033 position.

 

[Porker993]

Last year I fitted Bilstein HDs retaining standard springs and ride height following advice from this site.
So far I've been very pleased with the result - high speed handling has been "transformed". A bit of a cliché I know, but it's the only way I can describe it.

 

[stephenp]

4 years ago I replaced my original shocks for JRZ adjustables (originals were shot at 40'000 miles). I also replaced the rollbars with turbo on the rear and RS adjustable on the front. The car was completely transformed (1997 C2S).

 

[jboult]

Guys,

Thanks for all this info - I guess I can see the way it's heading.... Personal preference!

Given that the Targa has enough rattles and squeaks, and that the chassis is a little more flexible than the tin top I think I might play safe and go for a Bilstein HD/M033 set-up. It has to be better than the current suspension and hopefully I'll keep my fillings on the badly patched-up roads around here.

Now, should I get the extra thread version.....!!

Cheers/John

 

[RichardLW]

Maurice - Monroes all round and nearly new at the back but absolutely useless - fronts had done about 77000, rears about 6000.

 

[Guest]

Suspension again
Perhaps my recent experience may help.
I bought a 1996 Targa in October and the PPI indicated that the suspension was in need of attention, but with no specific diagnosis. I took it to another indipendant (Autofarm) for a further diagnosis and I was taken out as the passenger while it was road tested. He was an excellent driver and drove the car way in excess of any speeds I am likely to drive, especially in the corners and on the brakes. After putting the car on a ramp, he diagnosed worn shocks.Bearing in mind the speeds he had been driving with worn shocks,I revel in the thought of good shocks!
I went the full research the web route and eventually decided to fit the Gert extra adjustment Bilsteins but with standard springs and standard ride heights. Although there was no specific information on this setup,as I was fitting the parts myself, I could play with the adjusters until it was as standard.
I finished fitting the parts a couple of weeks ago, took the car to Tognola for a geometry steup, again asking hor the standard geometry, and the car is brilliant for my application, which is fast road use and day to day use. I am never likely to take it on a track day, so lowering the car, fitting stiffer roll bars, using RS geometry and fitting stronger springs are not important to me.
Having owned the car for 4 months, It's the geatest car I have ever owned and I love every second behind the wheel.