Rollcage anyone?!

[appletonn]

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1331403.htm

Ideal for Oli, when circumnavigating the North Circular and chasing diesel hatchbacks...[][]

 

[A.Wang]

£450 is a decent price. The killer is in labour costs though, unless you're going to be doing the stripping, welding and painting yourself! []

 

[944 man]

I disagree: £450 for a used weld-in cage is a joke. KE offered me an SD one for £100.

 

[333pg333]

Looks more like a 'bolt in' kit than welded overall.

 

[appletonn]

ORIGINAL: 944 man

I disagree: £450 for a used weld-in cage is a joke. KE offered me an SD one for £100.

Ah well, Simon does like to charge a lot more for his wares these days, as you know![]

 

[appletonn]

Now on Fleabay..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350272751487&category=10408&emailtemplateid=17007296&sellerid=FpRekKD1aqBMKMvfMFCvMg==&buyerid=FpRekKD1aqAbFSyL+QUHlw==&refid=store&ssPageName=ADME:B:SEMK:UK:LISTG

 

[944 man]

ORIGINAL: appletonn

ORIGINAL: 944 man

I disagree: £450 for a used weld-in cage is a joke. KE offered me an SD one for £100.

Ah well, Simon does like to charge a lot more for his wares these days, as you know![]

You say that as though there was a time when Simon was cheap! [] He has always had a reputation for charging too much and equally for refusing to pay proper money for items he wants to buy... At least you know where you are with Buttercup though...

 

[u63af]

Saw this earlier. Can get it new for £371 (+ Vat and postage). It looks like a bolt in cage that has been welded in. If it was £200 I would consider it.

 

[944 man]

Id come back to say the same thing (having since seen it on eBay). I believe that its a RC bolt-in in 38mm, making it an FIA Nat. cage, which RCR sell for £25-odd less new than Buttercup is trying to sell it for used. Even if its an FISA hoop then its still not a competitive price (and this assuming that its not been welded in and that the fitting kit is supplied). A part like this need provenance too...

 

[Hilux]

It looks like a bolt in cage that has been welded in.

Agreed

I may be wrong but the door bars look too low to be useful also.

 

[944 man]

The whole cage is inferior to the SD offering, but its a good deal cheaper. Youll see also that the A-post tubes mount on the floor, rather than the sill tops, too. The door bars will be about level with the top of your seat side when theyre installed.

 

[333pg333]

As all bolt in kits go to the floor before the dash, does anyone have any pics or experience of a full weld in product in a 944? I am going to be starting a new project involving a cage and I want a full custom weld in job, but I wonder how/where the front tie in when they go through the firewall. I know in some all out race cars they tie in with the front struts but I'm not sure how accessible this is on a car that will still need to be road registered?

 

[John Sims]

As someone once said to me - many people can do Fibreglass but you wouldn't ask them to make you a helmet. If you are serious about a roll cage get a proper tried and tested example made by a respected Company with experience in 944 cages. There is no point in reinventing the wheel and there are several respected manufacturers who already provide a solution.

 

[Neil Haughey]

ORIGINAL: 333pg333

As all bolt in kits go to the floor before the dash, does anyone have any pics or experience of a full weld in product in a 944? I am going to be starting a new project involving a cage and I want a full custom weld in job, but I wonder how/where the front tie in when they go through the firewall. I know in some all out race cars they tie in with the front struts but I'm not sure how accessible this is on a car that will still need to be road registered?

On a UK car I haven't seen any designs that go through the firewall as that wouldn't pass the regulations for many a race series. Likewise the PCGB club championship rules reflect the norm here in that the rear of the cage doesn't go further back then the rear load deck. The shortness front and rear is pretty sensible because it leaves a lot of crumple zones intact. The SD cages ISTR both bolt in and weld in mount on the door sill via a big spreader plate. Loads of pictures of my race car scattered around here and of course on my photobucket account.
http://s267.photobucket.com/albums/ii305/NeilHaughey/?start=40

 

[Hilux]

Youll see also that the A-post tubes mount on the floor, rather than the sill tops, too. The door bars will be about level with the top of your seat side when theyre installed.

Agreed so I`d say the front of the door bar would be level with the top of the sill.............therefore the rear is too low to be effective however anything is better than nothing.

Agree in particular with Mr Sims too []

 

[944 man]

2"-3" at the front and 6"+ at the rar, but I know what you mean and Id sooner have a straighter bar.

 

[Neil Haughey]

ISTR the FIA or MSA rules state that the door bar shouldn't be more then 1/3 of the way up the door aperture (or is that should be 1/3 up ?). For sure ISTR there is an FIA rule for international GT race cars whereby you have to be able to demonstrate that the driver can exit the car within a certain amount of time but I don't recall this being flowed down as yet to lower categories of racing. Anyways if you look at the pictures of my car one can see that access is pretty tight, in fact so far in the workshop I have found it a bit of PITA getting in and out of the car. It is notable how many racers use removable steering wheels and this would definitely make access much easier in a 944. We will see how I get on with it but given I am not very tall the seat is a long way forward making access that is already tight, very tight. If it annoys me too much I will definitely be investigating clip on steering wheels.

Some other important details about the SD cages:

1) It was mentioned recently about wrapping the shoulder belts onto the rear cross bar of the cage. If one looks at my pictures you can see the SD/Kevin Eacock design has a neat little brace bar between the rear chassis brace (cross bar) and the hump in the transmission tunnel. This is one of the most heavily built parts of the car so its a very neat little way of getting some extra strength into the cage design for a 944, AND crucially if one was to wrap harnesses onto the rear chassis brace bar you have the extra brace bar there to hopefully limit deformation of the cross brace in a big impact.

2) All of the Kevin Eacock (EMC) built body shells seem to have brace bars between the rear stays and the bottom of the main hoop down at the B post mount, whereas a couple of body shells I have seen had the brace bar between the middle of the main hoop upright and the rear stay. AFAIK these other rare cages are SD cages that SD themselves installed many years ago, only EMC themselves will be able to confirm if their cage is a design is unique to them but it certainly seems that every car with an SD cage of that design was either a body shell prepared by Kevin or a car built by Kevin or perhaps a kit supplied by them. Anyways I certainly get the impression after looking at every 944/968 racing in the PCGB championship that there are a hell of lot of Kevin Eacock prepped body shells out there.

It obviously goes without saying what my advice would be. Apart from anything else one sensibly must think about resale and any buyer I expect would be much more comfortable buying a car engineered to a known pedigree rather then a one off.

 

[333pg333]

ORIGINAL: Neil Haughey

ORIGINAL: 333pg333

As all bolt in kits go to the floor before the dash, does anyone have any pics or experience of a full weld in product in a 944? I am going to be starting a new project involving a cage and I want a full custom weld in job, but I wonder how/where the front tie in when they go through the firewall. I know in some all out race cars they tie in with the front struts but I'm not sure how accessible this is on a car that will still need to be road registered?

On a UK car I haven't seen any designs that go through the firewall as that wouldn't pass the regulations for many a race series. Likewise the PCGB club championship rules reflect the norm here in that the rear of the cage doesn't go further back then the rear load deck. The shortness front and rear is pretty sensible because it leaves a lot of crumple zones intact. The SD cages ISTR both bolt in and weld in mount on the door sill via a big spreader plate. Loads of pictures of my race car scattered around here and of course on my photobucket account.
http://s267.photobucket.com/albums/ii305/NeilHaughey/?start=40

Thanks Neil. I also fail to see an easy access for a tie in on the front struts anyway. I just want to get something that is the safest without having to spend an absolute fortune. Not sure what you guys pay for a custom weld in cage, but down here you can pay up to $15k from what I hear. Perhaps that's chromoly one. I have also read of concerns for ones that bolt to the floorpan in that they can be separated or even push through said pan if not done properly. That may be possibly more aimed at simple roll-over hoops though.

I have a f/g dash so I wonder if we exclude the idea of actually going through the firewall, that the 'A' pillar bar couldn't come down through the dash so as to offer more room ergonomically? Just thinking out loud....

EDIT: If you see the first page on the link I posted below, you will see what I mean re the 'downbar' going past or through the normal line of the dash. He's put another bar down to triangulate though. Very comprehensive cage.

 

[333pg333]

Oh Neil, and others. Thought you might like to see another awesome S2 racecar project. This guy is in Thailand and I think you'll agree has got a very nice result with his build.

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/924-931-944-951-968-forum/493013-another-944-project.html

 

[Hilux]

if you look at the pictures of my car

Where?

I`m interested []