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RS hubs - are they lifed? What to do now.

H

h_____

New member
Some of you are probably aware that I had a minor stub axle issue at Spa. As a result the kind guys at speedservice fitted C2 parts overnight. Post Spa I've bought replacements RS parts to convert back to original. However, on discussion with a couple of you here, and seperately with my garage, I've been told that the RS part was lifed - but nobody seems to know for how long. As a result (and with a trackday booked 18th May (silverstone new gp eve. )) I've decided that the other side must come off. Now, as I've got C2 parts and the because the RS parts are pricey I'm going to fit the C2 parts to the other side for now.

A little background for those that dont konw. The C2 shares the same parts as the Turbo (I believe), these are steel tension bolts with seperate ABS wheel and steel wheel carrier. But the RS has an an ali tension bolt with built in ABS wheel, that mounts to an ali wheel carrier. These use an additional spacer but the same bearing. The key difference in the tension bolt is that locator to the wheel carrier is hex, where as on the C2 is round and just and interference fit. Quite why this is I'm not sure (linked to centre lock wheels?). Both are torqued to the same degree 399lb/ft or FT :).

So my question is what do I do next. here are the options.

1) replace the C2 parts with RS parts (swallow the cost) and replace at undertermined interval (say every year?)
2) replace RS parts with C2 parts (not lifed, and cheaper), although I need to buy a wheel carrier in addition. however, once I have the wheel carriers, tension bolts and wheel bearing are cheap so could be replaced annually with out issue.

Now I know alot of you have tracked these cars for long periods of time and never encountered this, but a quick conversation with a mechanic who helped run an NGT in a race series, and he said "yeah that happens", and I'm keen not experience that again - as the outcome could a be a little worse.

Also does anyone have any information on what else might be lifed on the car, or if indeed they were lifed. Hard to see how they lifed parts on a road car, when it does nt seem to appear in the service schedule?

Anyone shed some light or offer an opinion?
 
If the RS stub axle is lifed, how would most owners measure it in anything other than Km ??

In which case, how do track Km equate ?

Is the RS stub axle the same as the Cup ? If so was this lifed in hours ?
 
Chris/Hugh

I am convinced that some of the parts on our cars are lifed. Having spoken to one of the designers of the 964 Cup (his English is much better than my German), he was clear that the some of the suspension parts are lifed. The same has been confirmed here in the UK but there doesn't appear to be anything definitive regarding time periods.

I wonder if anyone else knows or thinks differently?

Hugh

If I were you, I'd bite the bullet and replace all the bits with original RS. I did the same to my RS three years ago, which was expensive but gave me peace of mind.

Damen
 
Have you guys looked at the rs teknic,it may shed some light.
The teknic for cups and gt2 etc indicate inspection hours etc

 
Paul, the RS technik does detail the differences in the front hub, as you would expect, but doesnt say anything about life unfortunately.

I dont see how they can life the part on a road car, but agree with Damon that I've heard this.

Damon - your advice on swapping the parts for original RS is valid, and I'm happy to do it so long as I know how often to change it. How often do you change yours?

At about 600quid to do both sides + labour, I wouldnt be keen to do more often than neccessary but equally skimping is a false economy. The advantage of using the C2 parts is is that its probably 120quid for both sides + labour - so I'd happily swap every year?

Anyone comment on what is done on the cup cars? Do they use the RS part for a start?
 
I read somewhere that few cups have the original Alloy hubs. Most that raced have been replaced with C2 parts. Cheaper stronger and last longer.

Not sure what is on mine but Olav will know.
 
Charles, do you know if the ali parts on the cup cars were the same as the RS?

Where any parts on the Cup lifed? I am wondering if the parts didnt come lifed from the factory, but that after racing a few with frequent failures teams got into the habit of replacing them say every season.
 

ORIGINAL: h_____

Where any parts on the Cup lifed? I am wondering if the parts didnt come lifed from the factory, but that after racing a few with frequent failures teams got into the habit of replacing them say every season.
Click to expand...

This seems logical to me, especially as the service technik doesn't mention 'lifed' (whether KMs or track time).

It's easy to imagine that a team's recommendation for checking and changing specific parts during or at the end of a season, could easily become 'the done thing' for all race teams, which over time becomes translated as 'Porsche Policy'.
 
This would be further backed up if many cup cars were run on C2 parts after they left the Carrera cup. Would be keen to know though.
 
So would I [;)]

Of more than academic interest having speculated on how Hugh ended up in the kitty litter on a warm up lap ...

It could have been me !!

On the scale of risk, is there anything much more potentially catastrophic than this ?
 
Hugh, I think the main thing for consideration on running C2 or RS tension bolts / ABS wheel is the number of teeth on the ABS wheel. I believe the ABS brain in the RS is different and will only work properly with the correct number of teeth on the ABS wheel and is the reason for the RS specific part.

As some additional info; with regards to the wheel carrier itself the 964 RS part is not alluminium. The reason there is a different part for the RS is because the 2 lugs that the brake caliper bolt to are longer on the RS and Turbo than the C2, in order for the car to run the bigger disks. The wheel carrier is steel and a shared part with the Turbo.

These parts would only have been lifed for racing use on slicks. Annual maintenance and inspection of your car should suffice. Wheel bearings would also have been lifed for racing use, but most owners simply replace as and when they are worn. This would be evident by play or droning.
 
Hugh

Fit the RS parts. Anything else is a compromise and false economy. I changed all the stuff on my RS three years ago and it made a huge improvement.

I'd suggest heavy track use would mean replacement of bearings every five years, or every 75,000 road miles. The most obvious sign of the bearings needing a change is a droning noise. If your car has noisy bearing the improvement after the new ones are fitted is huge.

Damen
 
Again my terminology fails me a bit so I'm going to resort to part numbers and PET descriptions to ensure we are all talking about the same parts.

The wheel carrier is 365 341 656 19, as Paul says its steel and common with the Turbo (Paul sorry I've called the hub the wheel carrier!)
The hub is 964 341 065 12 for the C2/Turbo, and 964 341 066 04 for the RS. I believe the RS one is Ali, and differs from the C2 one by having a hex slot for the RS tension bolt (964 351 131 00) to fit into.

I didn't even think to count the teeth on the ABS wheel, but have the parts in the garage so should go and check.

Damen, I take on board your advice and think that I may well go to RS parts and replace after a suitable period.

The bearings themselves are fine, its just that they are a consumable when you swap the tension bolt. My main worry is the tension bolt itself, and whether the hub (note correct term this time!) is more vulnerable being ali. I am (unsuprisingly) keen to avoid a repeat failure.

I also remain curious as to whether the cup cars had the RS or C2 parts fitted?
 

ORIGINAL: h_____

I also remain curious as to whether the cup cars had the RS or C2 parts fitted?
Click to expand...

If my memory serves me correct (Long time ago!), the 1992 Cup car had ali hubs as one of the changes they made for that year. Before it was all steel. But I can´t say in detail, which parts are the same or different from the RS. Some Cup car suspension parts are special anyway.

Melvin?

Rgds,

Hacki
 
Back from hols and trying to catch up on the news. So what actually failed Hugh? i.e. which of the parts mentioned actually let go ?
 
Wasn't that big a moment if we are honest, although it makes a good story.....

It was the tension bolt, or more commonly known as a stub axle.
 
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