Rust

[pauljmcnulty]

Hi All,

I have posed this question before, here and in the Porsche Post, but it was one of my less successful pleas for help - I had no replies at all.......

At the time I thought oh well, maybe there's not an issue with corrosion in our cars apart from the odd one. It does seem, from evidence here and in the enquiries I get direct, that almost every car has a rust issue, most serious in the turbos and S2s. With the cost of repairs to cills, wings etc. done properly I reckon we could be at the stage where rust is the most expensive problem on the cars.

Say if you think I'm wasting my time, but I'd like to do a Porsche Post article on this. Rust is one thing that can't be neglected without a small problem becoming a big issue, much like a belt breaking - and we all go on about the importance of belt history!! Perhaps, nipping rust in the bud would be a good thing to look at in more depth?

I suggest a survey of what has been experienced by us all. Something along the the lines of:

Car age/model
Have you taken any preventative measures eg waxoyled
Do you have any corrosion, and where
Have you had this treated
What was the approximate cost and extent of work
When, and is there any sign of a problem recurring

What do you all think? If enough replies come in I can put together a sort of guide to what to look for and how to sort it.

 

[andymorris]

I would be very happy to contribute considering my recent experience !

 

[zcacogp]

Paul,

It's a good idea. Rust is one thing that worries me about cars - I can fix oily dirty bits when they are broken, rust is something beyond my knowledge. Rust is also a bit more silent - if something mechanical (or electrical) is up the spout, you notice it pretty soon. Rust is insidious and you are not so aware of it until you have a good poke at the affected part, whereupon it can (literally) collapse before your eyes.

Do you want answers to your questions on this forum, or elsewhere?


Oli.

 

[Peter Empson]

Hi Paul,
Here's a quick list of some of the rust areas on my car if they're of help.

Windscreen - A pillars and across top, seems to be caused when a replacement screen is fitted incorrectly and they can damage the paint when doing so.

Boot latches - Where the hatch latches contact the car they can wear away the paint (from latch mis alignment or worn rubber gasket?) leading to rust.

Wheel arches - I suspect almost all cars have the leading edges of front and rear wings showing damage from stone chips.

Sills - no pointing on dwelling upon this one by me as it's well documented, but rumours are indeed that it is often worse on the Turbo's etc with the plastic liners underneath that traps dirt and salt. I waxoyl'd mine but I suspect it was too late.

I'm sure there's more rust on my car, but I can't think of it just now.
best regards,
Peter

 

[macandsue]

WE have two of the blighters,the oldest C12 BOX has had extensive waxoyl in every where but it still keeps coming, the latest was at the centre jacking point which has never been used by us in seven years.The MOT tester suggested that my attempts to hold the rust at bay ie wax and sealers of every expensive variety known to man and also the cheapest, were attempts to disguise it.So it had to be taken away scraped off and welded again.If you don't have the skills yourself or the gear, thats big dosh. The other point is that if it fails and you do repair it you have to take it back with no underseal on it .It all makes work for the working man to do.
I think I have spent a couple of grand over the years on rust repairs and treatment but next to nothing on mechanicals by comparison.
The other one S2 Convertible /Cabriolet seems to be quite rust free although I think I will go out and have a look now it's been mentioned ,those plastic sill thingys look naff any way so I think they can come off.My mates got an old left hooker from US and it is totally rust free but it has all that cat pooh on it so it's sloooow.It is the salt and unless you can pressure wash it every time you use it between November and April weep! Roll on real global warming, never need to put the hood up and no salt = no rust so 944s will last forever.
This is Mac not Sue

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: macandsue

... it has all that cat pooh on it ...

Interesting state-side mod. Added cat pooh. Does it smell as well?

Pressure washing the underside is a serious suggestion. I have taken a Stihl 120bar jobbie to the underside of mine twice this winter. You get cold and wet and very bad-tempered, but you do get all (or hopefully most) of the salt off it.

On a side note, the amount of salt on the roads this year seems to be higher than usual. I drove from London to the south coast about 2 months ago and in the course of 105 miles the car went from shiny clean to utterly, utterly grey - completely caked in salt. I have never seen anything like it, and washed it off immediately (and then pressure-washed the underneath.) Are they using more of the stuff in some Health and Safety scare?


Oli.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Do you want answers to your questions on this forum, or elsewhere?

Put anything you like on here, and I think I'll put a proper "questionaire" type thingy in the PP for the people who aren't on here.

Interesting that the few replies so far hint at it coming through waxoyl AND repairs.....[]

 

[Diver944]

Sounds a good idea Paul. Both of mine have had some work done during my ownership, and they are all getting to an age were the dreaded worm is starting to appear orall of us. I had a good look around the 944 section in the car park at Tipec Elvaston Castle last year and I would say that 80% showed some signs of bubbling along the cill or had had a repair that resulted in non standard looking 'bobbly paint'

 

[Fen]

The only rust on mine is around the number plate lights. Even the bottom corners of the front wings were 100% solid until I cut them off.

 

[NeilW]

Both of mine had some bubbling around the number plates light fittings. I sanded the area down to bare metal, applied a stabiliser/converter just in case I'd missed any, two coats of acid etch zinc primer, followed by several more colour coats (and clearcoat for the turbot). It shows no sign of return 10 months later.

On my S I've had what looked like rust bubbles on the sills only to remove a small circular section and find no rust at all. From what I've read the Wurth stonechip is actually porous and lets water pool behind giving the illusion of rust. Other that that sills and wings are solid.

The turbo has had the sills repaired prior to my ownership and the bottom of the front wings (where they curl under) are still quite rusted. I applied several Dinitrol products just prior to Winter in order to slow the rust process until better weather, which seems to have worked. I can describe the products I used if required.

Interestingly both of my cars are the same age (to the month) so clearly the S without sill trims has faired far better as was commented earlier.

 

[Alpine]

From my experience, I think there are 3 areas of concern to watch out for:

1. Along the cills - as has already been said the Wurth is porous so a bubble here might not be too much concern, but it could also be rust coming from the inside of the cill out. I have now covered the inside of my cills with Dinitrol. You can buy an extention lead for their cavity wax but this only reaches half way long the inner cill. However, you can join two leads together and get all the way down! You need to access the cill through the black plastic vent in the door pillar. Luckily my cills have no rust at all, from the outside apperaance at least.

2. Bottom edge of the front wings, behind the wheel. Most 944 that I have seen have some rust here. This is due to the pounding they get from water/dirt coming up from the front wheels. The solution to this is to remove the inner wheel arch liners, clean out the mud and dirt and seal it up from the back if it has rusted through. I have sealed mine with underseal and it has helped but I do have some bubbling on the Wurth here.

3. Round the edge of the windscreen. I have seen a few 944 s with bubbling paid round here, mainly at the lower edges by the bonnet. I have a little and I have lifted the windscreen rubbers, cleaned out and waxoiled. The cars where there is rust all along the edge (and on the roof edge) I suspect are cars where the windscreens have been replaced at some time.

I hope that helps. Sorting mine out has been a real pain, but I think its protected now. The trouble is that a proper repair (cut out rust and replace) is very expensive and it seems difficult to find people who are prepared to do the smaller jobs. Just using filler means that the problem will probably come back a year or 2 later.

It would be helpful if we could get together a list of good body repairers. I know I would be prepared to travel to get a good job done.

 

[cococola]

Apart from some minor bubbles around the bottom of the front screen my 1986 model is rust free[]sills and all!

 

[Justin85]

1989 S2, 127k miles.

I have rusty sills - looks like outer sills only and they are sufficiently gone to have started to bubble up just where the box section begins in front of the rear wheel arch - considerably worse on the offside, as seems to be the norm.

The very bottom of the front wing has also suffered - enough for the mount for the plastic sill extensions to come away with the plastic itself when I removed them a week ago or so. This is on the nearside though - the offside seems pretty good!

Will be going into a bodyshop (Daytona or Specialised Performance) as soon as the fuel lines are done to get it sorted.

Justin.

 

[sawood12]

The bottom of my front wings are corroded and the front under wing trims are hanging on by a thread. The sills are OK at the moment. When someone recently rear-ended me when it was getting repaired I got them to do something with the front wings - whilst they were doing that they also treated some minor corrosion on one of the cills. They then waxoiled both sills inside. I have a patch of rust on the corner of my drivers door but that is it as far as I can tell.

I've been thinking and going on for some time that I think staving off the rust along the sill and bottom of the wings on a car that is used regularly in all weathers and seasons is a hiding to nothing. I would love to fit some sill trims to seal the sill and wing bottoms from the elements and encase them in a cocoon of Waxoil, but I have yet to find a set of sill trims that I think look acceptable. The best i've come across is the ones from ZeeSweden that you can get from ESS but i'm reserving judgement until i've seen some in the flesh. Either that or find some GF or CF front wings that look acceptable.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

So - this may have opened a can of tin-worms!

I've been saving that one.....[]

Look as if the galvanised car I was sold by the buyer's guides 3 years ago may be falling apart as I'm writing this. What i'd really like is some "I spent this, did this, and the result is" type experiences.

Thanks

 

[wibble]

Agree - an article on rust prevention would be an excellent idea Paul. Judging by some of the posts here, there are good tips to be learnt. It also helps potential buyers on what to look for when considering a 944.

 

[jez_anderson]

You have my vote. I have just spotted the first example on my car - bottom of front wings behind the wheel.[]

Where to go, what to have done and how much it will likely cost would all be welcome info for me.

 

[andymorris]

The rust issues on my S2 are, bottom of front wings behind the wheels both sides, Sills both sides and around the little lights above the number plate. I should have a quote from a bodyshop in the next day or so.

 

[Riverside]

ORIGINAL: pauljmcnulty
What i'd really like is some "I spent this, did this, and the result is" type experiences.

Thanks

My old 2.7 had rusty sills on both sides at the seam with the rear wing, I had both inner & outer sills rebuilt with scratch built metalwork and at the same time had the nose repainted (not the wings or bonnet) for £730. The chap who did it was an ex-Crewe Rolls Royce panel beater & when it was finished you couldn't tell they weren't original, he'd even put the little diamond marks in the sill panels []

It wasn't galvanised but apart from that it was spot on, and I reckon it was worth the money for the amount I got for the car when I sold it.

The sills & bottoms of the front wings on my turbo are starting to go at the bottom but they're nowhere near as bad as my 2.7 was & both cars are the same model year & similar mileage (130,000+)

Edit: found a gruesome pic http://www.belper.plus.com/1989_944_rusty_sills.jpg

 

[944cabby]

Bought mine in the october and by the following january i had a bubble appear on the passenger rear flare the size of a large egg.Booked it into a local body shop asking them to do what was required all along - it turned out that rust was coming through on both sills,flares and base of the front wings.It cost over 500 to fix including paint,waxoil etc and they reckoned that the sills should be good for at least another ten years.
Have a small blister appeared now to the top of the drivers side rear arch.