Rust

Guest · Apr 18, 2004

I had an inspection from Hartech when they serviced my car, it was not as bad as i had thought but there were a few things wrong. Leaking pre exhaust and silencer, easy fix. Heater motor, the list goes on, but nothing that worries me to much apart from the corrosion that was listed. Reading from the report.

There is advanced chassis corrosion which needs attending to. The worst areas are in the front of the car under the battery, both sills to the floor at the rear, near side front sills behind the wing, and off side inner wing.

This does worry me! Only because i dont know anybody that i would trust to do the work properly. My car only gets used in the dry, so i am hoping that if i get the job done to a high standard by someone that has a good reputation then i wont have to worry about rust for quite a few years.
So my question is this, does anyone in here have any experience of dealing with someone who does this kind of work, will it be expencive, and is it easily fixed?
I live in the Manchester area (Prestwich) but i would be willing to travel. Also i am going to Le Manns this year with the club camping, my first time, so i hope to meet up with some fellow 3.2 owners. Thanks in advance for any replies Nat.

Mark_Bennett · Apr 18, 2004

Did Hartech not recommend anyone?
I would think anyone they recommended would be good.

Guest · Apr 18, 2004

My car only gets used in the dry

I always feel a little sad when people say this, although I can understand why, in your case.

My 87 3.2 gets used as a car - wet/dry/ice/snow etc., whatever the climate throws at it, with no rust appearing. My own view is that if the car is too precious to use whenever, I could have bought a Lotus and felt justified in it's limitations. But it is just a car, after all.

I will stop my little lecture now, and return to JavaScript.

Guest · Apr 18, 2004

No Hartech could not recomend anyone. They said i would have to try and find a old timer who had done this sort of work for years. In reply to John, once the corrosion has been taken care of, i won't be to botherd about getting caught out in the rain.

harry · Apr 18, 2004

Don't know how good these guys are but I suspect they will be good.

http://www.mototechnique.com/index1.htm

Harry

Guest · Apr 18, 2004

Nathan,
Last year I rebuilt the front inner wings of my 911.
In all honesty it is not a difficult task, any good body shop should be able to do this.
I've attached 2 photos, one before and one after repairs.
This area effected is very common on all the earlier 911's, in fact, I'd be surprised if any 15+ year old 911's didn't have some rust in this area!
Two things I can recommend:
When the welding is finished paint all the sufaces with POR15.
Clean all new metal with POR metal prep and Marine clean.
Give it 2 coats of POR15 back-to-back, then a coat of POR tie-coat ( this enables a topcoat to adhere to the POR15)
Paint the insides of your wings with POR as well (while there off).
The second thing;
Change the "speed nuts" on your wings to Stainlees Steel Blind Nuts, and use SS cap screws to secure the wings to the car. Looks good, and will last forever.
You'll notice I also replaced the wing support/divide panel (below the filler hole)
regards,
see next entry for other photo.

Peter

bones · Apr 18, 2004

I would get a secondopinion unless it lives by the sea no way should a 3.2 have the levels of corrosion you 're talking about , however if it does PCGB office should be able to recommend someone.

Guest · Apr 18, 2004

second photo - before.

ClubSport 911 · Apr 19, 2004

Agreed. It has been often argued, that the main reason for corrosion in the (galvanized) Porsche body, is a previous poor repair. Modern refinishing tecchniques, with ovens, and Acid etched Zinc primers etc will / should last a long time.

Most decent bodyshops, when preparing cars should do this as a matter of cours.

Some however, do not.

Guest · Apr 19, 2004

Its true what Steve has said,
But I cannot emphasize enough the use of POR15.
Most paints are not water-proof - a fact not commonly known!
For instance, acrilic primer; - water will pass straight through this.
Its for this reason and others that the zinc coating on the body does in some places deteriate; it is after all sacraficial, just like an annode in a hot water cylinder. It protects the steel from oxidizing.
I have seen many panels on various cars properly welded and fixed; only to have some B class paint job which fails in 12 months. It is such a simple thing to do correctly, yet often over looked.
I know I'm raving about POR15, but just check the threads on Pelican if you want a second opinion. Do a search with POR15 as your key words. IT IS AS GOOD AS THEY SAY.
I'm sure a good panel shop would be happy to apply the stuff if you supplied it (POR).
You need to follow the directions exactly.
Ckeck out on Por's web site:
www.POR15.com
and obtain from Frosts at;
www.Frost.co.uk
keep on keeping on!
Peter

Guest · Apr 19, 2004

Thanks for all the replies. Going to give Graham Green a ring as Preston is only 30 minuets away. Hopefuly he will be able to help. Thanks again Nat.

Gary71 · Apr 20, 2004

I did the same sill & wing repairs to my '71 911 myself, but am currently having the shiny sections done by Prospray who are the bodyshop used by JMH Automotive. They have experience of the older 911's and may be worth talking to. They seem to understand rust prevention!

I can't comment on the quality of their work until I get the car back [&:] but by all accounts the work they have done so far in preparation looks good. They are letting in several repair sections to the top side of the rear quarter panels so this will be a test of their fabrication skills! This was a litle outside my ugly but strong welding and metal work abilities!

Photo shows work in progress, with another 911 E being restored in the background

Prospray
10, Chapel Lane Rixton Warrington Cheshire WA3 6HG.
Tel: 0161 775 4828

Guest · Apr 20, 2004

I can second the vote for POR 15 excellent stuff indeed, but it does need to be top coated as it breaks down in UV light if remember correctly!

wormand · Feb 5, 2006

I have never heard of rust in the area you are talking about. Places I know are suseptable to rust are the slam panel of the doors leading down to the sill area, the front headlamp bowls and around the rear lights are about the most common hot spots. I have also seen a car that had rust at the bottom of the rear screen, I walked away quickly from it because I had never seen it before. I would walk away and find another example if I were you. There's plenty to choose from, it just depends how much you want to spend and how far you are willing to travel. Good luck.

bruceb · Feb 5, 2006

Martin

If you are describing an area that runs along the scuttle to wing join, right next to the front windscreen piller, then this is a common place for rust to take hold on these cars. The good thing is, it is generally not structural, but the repairs, as for all things Porsche can get quite involved.

When I brought my car seven years ago it had a smal paint blister in the spot you describe. The spot grew very slowly and only last year did I bother to get it fixed. It does require taking the screen out and the front wing off to get enough access to get a proper metal repair, so it is a bit expensive to sort out properly.

However if the car you are looking at holds up in all other respects then this might be a usefull bargaining chip with the vendor.

Warwick has given good advice with his list of other problem areas

Bruce

nathan 1981 930 G50 · Feb 5, 2006

The paint was probably chipped when the windscreen has been removed or replaced, unfortunate.

It can be fixed properly having a new piece welded in and leaded up. This will add up and then will the paint match ?

Need to get a rough estimate of what this will cost and allow for it when buying the car.

Guest · Feb 8, 2006

Martin, I told you it was a reflection in the photo - there is no rust there. Or anywhere else to my knowledge.

idc1873 · Mar 26, 2010

Sort it and keep it. Its not the end of the world.

Plenty advice on IB

Some info save you searching:

http://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11778&st=0

http://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11867

http://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=12968

Bertroex · Mar 26, 2010

Having had two LHD cars in my former ownership, and being a Porsche club member in Belgium and Holland, I can confirm that the market for your carrera would be buoyant in Euroland.

If your car has a good service history, you kept the receipts or a friendly secretary can dive in your company files for the last 10 years and copy a comprehensive file together, a car in pretty rust free condition would fetch still a good 22000 Euro, if it is in a conservative colour and in cosmetically a great condition. Sussex means to me e.g. early 911, who have a track record in delivering a good deal at a set time scale (as stress is something you do want to avoid) and Mr Moss does have his share of experience with finding rust on a 3.2.

I guess that both front wings will have to come off, check the top of the inner wings and repair, repair A post, repair both outer sills and B posts, bit of work on rear wings, hopefully not too much rot in sunroof drains, front windscreen support and rear windscreen joint with the rear wings and you are looking, with a respray, at 8 to 10k.

Still would make you 4k profit. If you cannot deal with the hassle, sell it to either an enthusiast who just throws hours and hours at it to slowly bring it back to a pristine condition or alternatively put it on Ebay and piston heads and an enthusiastic Swede, Dane, Dutchman, German or Frenchman will be very very motivated to get it under 12k as there is nothing but incomplete category B scrappers available for that price over the water.

Good luck. Old porsches never die- they usually get rescued but do give the prospective enthusiast some insight how you cared for it and market it appropriately. 300 000 km for a 3.2 will actually mean nothing in real terms as I drove a dutch 570 000 km carrera that felt as tight as a drum. I couldn't believe it. These porsches are mechanically bomb proof but rust is what gets them.

Good luck. Remember, the low pound vs the euro makes your car INCREDIBLY attractive.

Bert

Edited for friday evening hamfisted typing skills