S2 Kangaroo!

[georgethackray]

My S2 Cab has suddenly developed a new feature. If I drive it for about ½hour to get it warmed up, slow down for traffic lights etc., then accelerate, it starts to 'Kangaroo Hop' just like a learner driver[]. This gets gradually worse but strangely, if I stop the engine (or it stalls!), then restart the engine, the fault disappears completely for a few minutes, then starts again.

I've had suggestions that it could be DME Relay, Flywheel Sender, Hall Sender, Oxygen Sensor or even a decoke needed. The car has been running beautifully for months now. I took it to Bristol 3 weeks ago (220 miles) - never missed a beat. The first indication of a problem was soming back from Bristol where for about 5 seconds it lost power and felt as though it was going to cut out. It picked up again then ran perfectly all day. Most of that day I'd been driving slowly through the snowstorm, but when the fault occurred it was clear.

A couple of days later it happened badly - driving along Blackpool seafront - sunny day, top down, when the power went and it started kangaroo hopping. It dropped to 20 in second gear, and I applied more accellerator. It finally lurched forward to 40 mph ( just missing a speed camera!), and then ran like a pig after that. I had to keep stopping the engine to clear the fault.

I normally use supermarket fuel without problems, but it currently has a mixture of Tesco 99 octane and Shell Optimax in - about 50/50. My first thought was fuel, but that doesn't seem to explain the problem clearing when the engine is switched off for a few seconds.

So, after that essay - any ideas anyone?

 

[Fen]

A friend had a similar problem and it was the flywheel sensor (which is the same as the Hall sender).

 

[hotblack944]

ORIGINAL: georgethackray
I normally use supermarket fuel without problems, but it currently has a mixture of Tesco 99 octane

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6405051.stm

 

[georgethackray]

ORIGINAL: Fen
A friend had a similar problem and it was the flywheel sensor (which is the same as the Hall sender).

Thanks Fen (once again!) - That's one of the bits I'm going to have changed - along with the DME relay. The post about the fuel looks like it is describing the problem exactly, so it might still be the fuel, although I filled up in the South West and not the South East.

 

[georgethackray]

ORIGINAL: hotblack944

ORIGINAL: georgethackray
I normally use supermarket fuel without problems, but it currently has a mixture of Tesco 99 octane

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6405051.stm

Ouch - that looks like it may be the problem, certainly running on bog standard supermarket petrol I've never had any problems, and they all started after the 99 octane stuff went in. I feel a letter to Tesco's coming together[]. Luckily I keep all my fuel receipts.

Thanks.

 

[ians]

I had a similar problem with another car. When I changed the plugs the problem went away. But I'm not sure this would explain all your symptoms.

Could it be worth checking/replacing the fuel filter?

 

[georgethackray]

ORIGINAL: ians
I had a similar problem with another car. When I changed the plugs the problem went away. But I'm not sure this would explain all your symptoms.
Could it be worth checking/replacing the fuel filter?

Hi. The plugs and fuel filter are both new and have covered less than 2000 miles. I'm beginning to suspect dodgy fuel, but that still doesn't explain why the problem goes away for a while after the engine is stopped. I can see this problem taking a while to fix.[]

 

[Guest]

Definitely try a new DME relay.

 

[georgethackray]

ORIGINAL: stevep944
Definitely try a new DME relay.

That's the first thing that's getting swapped!

 

[Fen]

I agree start with the relay, but with my friend's car the problem only appeared after a decent journey - I seem to recall about 70 miles - and it was eventually traced to the crank sensor.

 

[jason]

Was a Renault Motorsport engineer on radio this morning talking about all this weeks contaminated fuel problems from Tesco / Morrisons.

Said it had happened to him.

Basically he said everyone will get a (and I quote) KANGAROO EFFECT and loss of power that will be worse when cold. Has effected thousands of people.

Bit of a big coincedence isn't it???????????

 

[georgethackray]

ORIGINAL: jason

Was a Renault Motorsport engineer on radio this morning talking about all this weeks contaminated fuel problems from Tesco / Morrisons.

Said it had happened to him.

Basically he said everyone will get a (and I quote) KANGAROO EFFECT and loss of power that will be worse when cold. Has effected thousands of people.

Bit of a big coincedence isn't it???????????

It sure is - the only things that made me doubt it is the contaminated fuel is that after filling up at Tesco in Bristol, I drove over 100 miles to the M6 Toll services, filled up again there, then travelled about another 100 miles before the first symptom occurred, which lasted only a couple of seconds, and the other thing is turning the engine off clears the fault for a few minutes. It also only occurs when hot. It might be possible though that the fuel was contaminated and it has taken time to damage something like the oxygen sensor, and the cars electronics reset when the engine is turned off.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that it is fuel. The car was serviced by Hartech about 6 months ago, and since that time it has run beautifully - smooth, fast, quiet etc. On the run down to Bristol it was perfect. Everything seems to revolves around fuel.

 

[charles.y]

I use Tesco 99 RON fuel on my S2 cab for the last 12 months and have no problems at all. In fact, the Tesco 99 seems to be better fuel than the BP Optima in my S2. I had the fuel from different Tesco stations covering areas in Essex, London, Berkshire and Birmingham etc.

Charles

 

[Fen]

I'm not sure if the implication is 99 is potentially bad or if it's just the cruddy 95 stuff that (I hope) none of us would buy from a supermarket anyway. I filled up at Esso this morning anyway.

I'm not convinced a failed oxygen sensor would make that much difference to an early closed loop car like an S2 - they run OK if you just disconnect the sensor after all. Possibly it's more of an issue on more modern stuff.

I have seen a couple of decent looking cars broken down in the last day or so and I wonder if they are victims; there was a Merc on a roundabout in Slough yesterday about 5:25 being pulled onto a low loader and a Vectra or some other faceless automotive wallpaper on the North Circular last night at a set of lights.

 

[Diver944]

If it is dodgy supermarket petrol, and if it has broken your O2 sensor then take heart that a generic replacement costing well under £50 will work quite happily in our cars, or just disconnect it as Fen said. Some of these stories on the News with repair bills over £1000 smacks a little bit of mickey taking to my mind (fatr enough if an ECU has been fried though [])

Edited to add: Actually that could be a simple diagnostic test. Simply unplug the O2 sensor where it joins the harness right at the back of the cyinder head

 

[Fen]

As Bert said on Titanic though - what if it takes out the cat as well as the lambda? That could easily be £1,000 on a modern.

 

[georgethackray]

I took the car to Hartech, and they've just rung me to say its ready, and it is OK again. They've changed a few bits for me - Oxygen sensor, Flywheel / Hall sender and the DME relay - thankfully it's on their lifetime maintenance plan so I don't pay labour. I decided to have all the bits changed at once as its a bit of a trek from Lytham to Hartech - about 3½ hours round trip if I use the train. So, tomorrow I pick it up and I'll hopefully be able to enjoy driving it again. []

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Result!

I think, if I didn't have to pay the labour, I'd have changed everything as well [8|]

 

[Fen]

You know what they say about sarcasm, oh wondrous leader... []

 

[homesea]

I put Tesco 99 RON in then 2hrs later my gearbox gave up. I think Tesco have a lot to answer for. lol.