S2 Ventler

[P4GMan]

Hi,
Im currently a 924 owner but fortunately have finally the finance to join the world of real porsches, and Im looking for an S2. Ive had a look at a few, seen one I like but a couple questions-

- Its an S2 Ventler. Cant seem to find anywhere an explenation of what the significance of the Ventler bit is? Seems to have slightly different bodywork (in particular skirts), any other differences???

-Theres rust. Rather than in the typical place of the sills, there is bubbling around the bodywork joins at either side of the rear (ie below the tailgate and above the rear bumper, along the vertical seams) and at the front of the roof, one patch on either side. The car seems a reasonable price despite this, but I would want it sorted, I know there is allot on the forum already on rust, but cant find anything about it in these slightly different places, do people think it could be eonomically repairable?? Dont mind spending a bit of money to get it right, but dont want to buy a money pit

Really appreciate any advice!

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Hi Gareth,

Welcome. The rust issues don't sound too serious, windscreen is common after a replacement screen, I've seen plenty of light rust around those vertical rear seams, and the numberplate lights and tailgate latches. Usually easily treatable.

The 944 with the "ventiler" badges is normally the S. This is the 16valve 2.5 engine in the Lux body. The S2 is the 16V 3.0 engine in the later body, with the "bluff" front without a seperate bumper, as in my profile pic. More details or pics please!

As with either of the 16V cars, check the timing chain has been replaced and I'd recommend inspecting the cams for wear.

 

[P4GMan]

Hi Paul,

The link to the car is here- http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1143319.htm

That was my understanding, that the Ventiler was an S. When I ran it through one of the HPI/write off checking companies it came up as ' 944 S 3.0 ' , but to my knowledge there was never a 3.0 version of the S made, the only was the S2 ?? The car has 944 S2 on the rear, but as you can see in the pics the s2 part of the badge quite the same as most. The trim strip along the side reads Ventiler 16v .

A bit confusing!

 

[dann944]

looks like a good old fashioned S2 to me nice one tho

 

[P4GMan]

Oh and thanks for the tip on the belts, had checked and unfortunately are due a change, budgeting all that in when deciding!

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: gmartel

When I ran it through one of the HPI/write off checking companies it came up as ' 944 S 3.0 ' , but to my knowledge there was never a 3.0 version of the S made, the only was the S2 ??

The DVLA registered all S2's as S's. They never differentiated between them.

Something that is registered as a '3.0 S' is an S2.

(You're not the first to have been caught out by that!)


Oli.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

ORIGINAL: gmartel

Oh and thanks for the tip on the belts, had checked and unfortunately are due a change, budgeting all that in when deciding!

Looks pretty good from the advert. The belts are essential, and will most likely include seals, rollers, waterpump and certainly at least an inspection of the timing chain. Could cost £1K at an indie as a guide to worst-case senario, but at least then you've got peace of mind that it's all done correctly.

Check the sills from the inside through the vent in the door jamb, you can shine a torch inside or even get a small camera or phone picture of the entire sill interior. Bottoms of front wings are also weak areas for rust.

One thing, with the corrosion in the seams at the rear and the fact that the rear badge has been replaced incorrectly check for rear accident damage in the past. Might be nothing, or a very light repair done well, but worth a nose around. It's a good price for a car in reasonable condition with the right colour and interior, be aware that the 968 side trim is expensive but he's offered to replace it anyway.

Let us know how you get on!

 

[P4GMan]

Ahh, I see, that explains that! Still, dont understand how it could be a ventiler?! Someone has obviously put the skirts on the side, would they for some reason have put the ventiler trim on?

 

[pauljmcnulty]

ORIGINAL: gmartel

Hi Paul,

The link to the car is here- http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1143319.htm

That was my understanding, that the Ventiler was an S. When I ran it through one of the HPI/write off checking companies it came up as ' 944 S 3.0 ' , but to my knowledge there was never a 3.0 version of the S made, the only was the S2 ?? The car has 944 S2 on the rear, but as you can see in the pics the s2 part of the badge quite the same as most. The trim strip along the side reads Ventiler 16v .

A bit confusing!

I've never seen the Ventiler badge on an S2, but no reason why someone wouldn't fit them. I think it's just that the seller isn't aware of all the different models, it is an S2. You're correct about the rear badge, see my previous post. Mine's also wrong and it's very annoying once you know how they should read but they are only a few £s from a Porsche Centre.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

Someone has obviously put the skirts on the side,

Another reason to have a good look inside the sills, they are prone to rust and the skirts could cover this up nicely. They were an option, so not necessarily hiding nasties, but worth a second look.

 

[zcacogp]

ORIGINAL: gmartel

Ahh, I see, that explains that! Still, dont understand how it could be a ventiler?! Someone has obviously put the skirts on the side, would they for some reason have put the ventiler trim on?

I can't actually see a 'Ventiler' badge on that car, although he has advertised it as such.

I wouldn't worry about it - it's clearly an S2 (from the design of the front and the engine layout, and that fact that on a G-plate it couldn't be an 'S'). Some people are a bit confused about what they actually own - this chap could be such a person. (When I bought my S2 I found an S advertised as an S2. The vendor swore blind it was an S2, despite the front end being wrong, the engine bay layout being clearly that of an S and it was on a D-plate - thus older than the oldest S2!)

Those sill covers definitely need closer inspection. These cars rust along the sills, and covers can hide a host of evils. As Paul said, not a reason to be immediately suspicious, but certainly worth a very good look. There is a school of thought that says such covers compound the situation, by trapping water and salt against the metalwork and encouraging rust. All the more reason to have a good poke around. Repairs to the cills will cost well into four figures ...


Oli.

 

[pauljmcnulty]

You have to ask yourself why would someone put the 16Ventiler badeges on the car? I smell a rat..!

My Lux came with a turbo badge stuck on the wrong side. I guess over 20 years people add all sorts to cars, from little things like badges and official options like the sideskirts, or toastrack valances on Luxes though to the aftermarket bodykits and modifications.

As always, check and double check.

Was the "Ventiler" side badge ever an option on an S2? It would have been equally relevant.

 

[sawood12]

The good news is that S2's are pretty bullet proof as long as it has been properly maintained in the past. A belt change on it's own is not a particularly expensive job so if the car is otherwise a good one is no reason not to go for it, but as Paul has already said you need to also factor in the cost of the cam chain tensioner change and possibly even a cam chain change (this was not in Porsches service schedule and there has been some instances of the chain giving up, especially if the cam chain tensioner has not been serviced properly). You should approach the lack of history with the attitude that it needs doing now.

Regarding the sill covers, these are an aftermarket addition and unfortunately you should see these with a suspicious eye as alot of people fit these things to cover up underlying problems. I'm not saying this is the case here, but you need to be wary. The sills corrode from the inside out, so by the time you see signs of rust on the exterior it is often too late and sill repairs can be costly, so some unscrupulous owners may decide to cover up and get rid.

I'd also be suspicious of the rust along the vertical seams at the back. This could indicate a rear bump at some point and possibly a dodgy repair. A rear bump is not necessarily a show stopper depending upon the extent of the damage and the quality of the repair (in alot of cases a good qualit repair can be better than the original). Have a good look at the rear for signs of a bump (check the spare wheel well for signs of distortion, bending, dents etc.), look under the rear carpet at the back of the rear panel and there should be a paper adhesive tag with dot matrix characters on it (characteristically '80's!). This tab was stuck on at new production and lists the original spec, the chassis number and other info (check the chassis number matches the one on the bulkhead). If this tag is missing it could indicate that ther rear has had some attention at some point (it is rarely replaced if the rear panel is replaced). If it is missing then you need to check the history for evidence of a bump, and if there has been a bump you need to check out the quality of the repair (you could query the repairers if you can get that info). By the way, have you done an HPI check?

Sorry to sound so pessamistic, but with these things it will pay to be suspicious and question everything. Initial excitement can cloud good common sense (I am guilty of this behaviour for sure). Unfortunately even if you find a good car you often need to spend a good grand to grand and a half on it in the first 12 months to get properly on top of everything. Afterall, the main reason why people tend to sell these things is because there is usually a big bill coming up in the not too distant future. Good luck.

 

[random hero]

The same car was advertised a month ago for £2495 or there abouts so might give you some movement on the price,and in the original advert mentioned about a dented bonnet which the new advert doesnt !!

 

[P4GMan]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys! Have to agree with the Halfords comment, would be looking to source an original steering wheel from somewhere methinks! And if you hate that you are not gonna be a fan of the exhaust that someone has put on it! Another part that would need replacing I think!

Are you sure that it was this car advertised with the bonnet damage? There is one thats been knocking about ebay for a month or so which had a slate fall on it ( http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1989-PORSCHE-944-S2-BLACK_W0QQitemZ200363972545QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item2ea69f97c1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1683%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 )

Theres certainly no record of a category C/D insurance claim on the car, however it was SORN for a year back in 2005. Given the changed rear badge I wonder has there been a rear knock. There is certainly no sign of it on inspection, bodywork looks excellent. Assuming there has and it has been repaired with no sign other than the rust (which I would get sorted), is it naive to think that I dont really need to worry too much about it????

I suppose the advantage of getting a cheaper one is that there is room for me to spend a few quid on it.....

 

[random hero]

ORIGINAL: gmartel

Thanks for all the suggestions guys! Have to agree with the Halfords comment, would be looking to source an original steering wheel from somewhere methinks! And if you hate that you are not gonna be a fan of the exhaust that someone has put on it! Another part that would need replacing I think!

Are you sure that it was this car advertised with the bonnet damage? There is one thats been knocking about ebay for a month or so which had a slate fall on it ( http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1989-PORSCHE-944-S2-BLACK_W0QQitemZ200363972545QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item2ea69f97c1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1683%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 )

Theres certainly no record of a category C/D insurance claim on the car, however it was SORN for a year back in 2005. Given the changed rear badge I wonder has there been a rear knock. There is certainly no sign of it on inspection, bodywork looks excellent. Assuming there has and it has been repaired with no sign other than the rust (which I would get sorted), is it naive to think that I dont really need to worry too much about it????

I suppose the advantage of getting a cheaper one is that there is room for me to spend a few quid on it.....

Definatly the same car,just the advert has different details/pic's from last time,oh and the price !!

 

[Diver944]

I've seen quite a few S2's with the 16ventiler badge down the side.

It simply means 16 valve and you have to remember in the 80's and early 90's there were a lot of newly mutli valved cars displaying 16v somewhere. I simply think that a previous owner has obtained the badges from a 2.5 S and stuck them there to proudly display his extra valves [8|]

 

[944 man]

As Paul says, Ventiler means 'Valve' in German. The plain rubbing strip could be replaced on the 2500cc 'Super' model, with a massively over priced option with '16 Ventiler in italic script. It wasnt an option on the S2, so its been added afterwards. probably with parts of a breaker.