Some probably pretty obvious 944 turbo questions....

[gavinm]

Hi there,

am a new 944 turbo owner with a few questions...

been having a rummage through the forum and there's heaps of useful info to digest...

1. is there a really good recommended place for a turbo rebuild?
2. if the car is using a bit of oil and smells a bit oily, is this likely to be the turbo? is there an easy way of finding out if it is the turbo?
3.if you drag your thumb over rear bumper then you get a dark dirty thumb (above exhaust) assuming this is oil from turbo / engine...?
4. if you wanted to purchase a complete second hand interior in good nick, carpets and everything....is there a place apart form ebay that you would start looking?
5. anyone had a problem with a sunroof where when you close it one of the rear arms comes out below the groove it's supposed to go into so pushes the sunroof up instead of sealing it......

probably all been asked a million times before but....hey ho...


Cheers in advance!

 

[edh]

Gavin - Welcome to the forum

tell us a bit more about the car - what year is it, & is it modified in any way? How much oil is it using? (and what oil is in there?)

This site will be very useful to you
http://www.clarks-garage.com/ - go to the garage shop manual

1. Can't help you on that one
2. Oil use - could be a number of things - whip off the metal pipe from the intercooler to the throttle body & see if there's oil in there. If there is a fair amount (it's usual to have a little coating of oil), then that's either from the turbo oil seals or the crankcase breather
3. Could be burning oil, or just running rich - you might have a boost leak somewhere
4. Try & find someone stripping a race car maybe? - breakers will be more expensive than ebay (and not guaranteed to be more reliable)
5. Sunroof can be tricky - sounds like one for Clarks garage to me - It sounds like it hasn't engaged properly with the sunroof.

Good luck []

 

[gavinm]

ORIGINAL: edh

Gavin - Welcome to the forum

tell us a bit more about the car - what year is it, & is it modified in any way? How much oil is it using? (and what oil is in there?)

This site will be very useful to you
http://www.clarks-garage.com/ - go to the garage shop manual

1. Can't help you on that one
2. Oil use - could be a number of things - whip off the metal pipe from the intercooler to the throttle body & see if there's oil in there. If there is a fair amount (it's usual to have a little coating of oil), then that's either from the turbo oil seals or the crankcase breather
3. Could be burning oil, or just running rich - you might have a boost leak somewhere
4. Try & find someone stripping a race car maybe? - breakers will be more expensive than ebay (and not guaranteed to be more reliable)
5. Sunroof can be tricky - sounds like one for Clarks garage to me - It sounds like it hasn't engaged properly with the sunroof.

Good luck []

hi, thanks for the welcome and info.

it's a 1986 220bhp standars as far as can tell, only mods seem to be an aftermarket boost gauge and cup wheels....

will check the metal pipe and see what's inside....

cheers!

 

[edh]

If there's an aftermarket boost gauge I bet there's been some mods to the boost control - post a pic of your engine bay & we can try & work it out []

What is the max boost you are hitting in the midrange? - and what does it read at 5-6k?

Don't panic too much about oil use - it will use some, especially when driven hard. How much do you think it's using? if you're a new owner, I can guarantee you will have been enjoying the boost []

 

[poprock]

I don't know whether you've heard of TIPEC, the smaller Porsche owners club in the UK, but the next issue of their club magazine has a two page guide to 944 sunroof repairs and maintenance. It'll end up online eventually (probably three months from now), but if you know anybody locally who is a member, maybe they could let you have a read? It'll be hitting TIPEC members' doormats later this week.

 

[gavinm]

Thansk for the further info guys. engine bay image below plus gratuitous car images , see if you can see anything not 'normal'.....

hoe much oil is it using? hhmmm.... when I picked it up in lancashire it was almost bone dry, well below minimum mark. nearly two litres went in of 10/40 semi. drove it to dover, then from Calais to Amsterdam. was just above minimum when I got there. normal? about 800/900km I reckon.....

 

[edh]

I don't think the dipstick will give you a linear measure of oil volume - it may have been very empty.. (sounds like the car hadn't been looked after). Top it up to max & see how it goes from there.

1litre / 1000 miles wouldn't be unusual and is still within spec.

That engine bay looks standard - I wonder why the boost gauge has been added?

 

[gavinm]

is it normal to get a smell of oil if you're...err...pushing?

 

[edh]

No, not really

have a look for oil leaks - anything dripping onto the exhaust? The rear of the cam tower is a favourite spot

 

[gavinm]

will have a look...there's nothing dripping onto the floor.....

 

[karlaran]

Hi Gavin,

I am having the same problem with my 220 turbo. I have had the head rebuilt and i know there is no damage to the bores but it still uses oil, especially when driving hard. I have had many different opinions on the problem. The two main ones are the turbo and/or the breather. Mine is using around 1 litre every 3-400 miles when driving it hard which is excessive but it uses hardly any when driving normally. I went to St Ives in corwall in it earlier in the year which is some 1000 mile round trip and it used about 1 litre which is normal. Try driving it carefully for a few hundred miles ( i know its difficult) and see what it uses then. If it is using exsesive amounts of oil then be prepared to spend money to cure the problem I have spent around a grand and i still haven't solved it!

 

[gavinm]

ORIGINAL: karlaran

Hi Gavin,

I am having the same problem with my 220 turbo. I have had the head rebuilt and i know there is no damage to the bores but it still uses oil, especially when driving hard. I have had many different opinions on the problem. The two main ones are the turbo and/or the breather. Mine is using around 1 litre every 3-400 miles when driving it hard which is excessive but it uses hardly any when driving normally. I went to St Ives in corwall in it earlier in the year which is some 1000 mile round trip and it used about 1 litre which is normal. Try driving it carefully for a few hundred miles ( i know its difficult) and see what it uses then. If it is using exsesive amounts of oil then be prepared to spend money to cure the problem I have spent around a grand and i still haven't solved it!

cheers, useful to know. it does get a lot worse under boost so wondered if it was the oil seals...going to have the turo rebuilt at some point anyway so might be a sooner rather than later thing...

will try to drive dead carefully for a bit and see what happens......

cheers

 

[edh]

If there is oil in the intercooler pipes, check the j-boot that goes to the turbo intake - the breather connects here, so if there's no oil pre turbo, you can be fairly confident your oil usage is coming from the turbo oil seals. Rebuilds aren't expensive - and there are also s/h units occasionally on ebay - I picked up a good condition 26/8 as a spare last year for just over £100.

You can also divert the breather pipes through a catch tank - see if anything collect in there.

 

[gavinm]

cool. I'm assuming in a rebuild they can be slightly 'modernised' with internals as well? maybe a bit less lag and a bit more bhp and fuel economy?

 

[edh]

Not much you can do on a cheap rebuild - there are lots of options for hybrid turbos but they start to cost £££'s

most of your "lag" should be sorted by one of these...
http://www.promaxmotorsport.com/boost.htm
- and by making sure your wastegate is holding pressure.

You can raise the boost levels a bit to up your midrange torque - that's where you'll find the most benefit.
For a bit more cash, a Tial wastegate, Manual boost controller & new chips would do the job.

Here's a few more options...Jon Mitchell is acknowledged as a 944 specialist
http://www.jmgarage.com/modify-944.htm

You should get high 20's mpg - maybe a bit more on a long run. I suspect your car may be running rich & therefore using more fuel.

BUT - before you start all this
- check your basic service items - plugs, filters, leads, dizzy cap
- make sure you have no vac/boost leaks
- get your belts changed if they are over 3 years old (or risk losing your engine..)

you'll get the best performance and reliability from a car that has all the basics sorted first.

 

[gavinm]

hhmmm...ok have checked the pipes and there's no significant oil in them at all....a dirty finger was produced but nothing wet and oily....

I'm assuming this points more in the direction of piston rings then......arse... would have preferred to have the turbo rebuilt as an easier option.....guess the head needs to come offski.....

nice man has just delivered oil/air filters and spark plugs so will give it a basic change over anyway...

belts are 15k and a couple of years old....

 

[Diver944]

ORIGINAL: gavinm

.....guess the head needs to come offski.....

Get a compression and leakdown test first. Best to confirm exactly where it's going before taking it apart

 

[tref]

I had trouble with an early 944, that turns out was well on it's way to third time round the clock, which would use anything up to a litre per 200miles... oh yes, 200, not 2000! smoke was noticeable on that, but here's the thing... compression test was good, bores looked excellent. I never cured it, I changed the engine (because I had a known good one) but gave the old block to a well respected independant. I told him and his comment was "ah, change the oil control rings and it will be as good as gold"... I never followed it up, but from that now assume that possibly the oil control rings wear before the compression rings...
To my mind, a compression/leakdown check won't show this up. It will eliminate valve guides etc though. Any chance your car could have been clocked at some stage in it's life?

 

[gavinm]

ORIGINAL: tref

I had trouble with an early 944, that turns out was well on it's way to third time round the clock, which would use anything up to a litre per 200miles... oh yes, 200, not 2000! smoke was noticeable on that, but here's the thing... compression test was good, bores looked excellent. I never cured it, I changed the engine (because I had a known good one) but gave the old block to a well respected independant. I told him and his comment was "ah, change the oil control rings and it will be as good as gold"... I never followed it up, but from that now assume that possibly the oil control rings wear before the compression rings...
To my mind, a compression/leakdown check won't show this up. It will eliminate valve guides etc though. Any chance your car could have been clocked at some stage in it's life?

hhmmm.....ok, compression check on the way... Don't think there car has been clocked but I guess there are never guarantees...have every MOT going back to when it was nearly new, currently sitting on 89k miles....

 

[tref]

That's a pretty good way of ensuring the mileage is genuine[]